For Phil....

[jymp 168]

Phil, has anyone from Aces spoke to Nvidia about their latest drivers (160 series) ?, which will not let us set AA in FSX & FS2004, so far the only way to use the AA setting in the Nvidia Control Panel is to use the Nhancer utility which with the very latest driver (169.01) will not work now. I've read where the problem is Nvidia set the AA flag for both sims to "Enhance Only" in the profiles for both sims in its latest drivers, any help Aces could provide to get rid of the jaggies would be great, thanks.

[PhilTaylor 45]

Yes, the AA/AF, performance, and menu-crashing are all being investigated. I cannot comment on when/if nVidia will have a response or updated driver.

[Guest JIMJAM]

Thats what I wanted to hear. Thanks Phil

[Guest j0nx]

Perfect! Philtaylor, what driver did you guys use when you got a 20% increase in dx10 framerate? I would like to use that driver if i knew which one it was. Thx.

[slashed2 53]

I'm noticing a 15-20% increase between DX10 and DX9. Saved a flight near Friday harbor, flew for 2 minutes in DX10, bloom on in the default Baron and averaged frames were about 24 as I flew over land.Exited, changed the D3D10 to 0 in the fsx cfg, loaded up the test flight again, flew same direction, plane, settings etc... DX9 bloom on, got an average of 20. 17% difference.Now, this was near land and both were about the same over the water, but as I neared land DX10 dropped from around 34 to 24 and DX9 dropped from 34 to 20. All during daylight. I'll have to see if night time produces the same results.I'm on the 163.69 nvidia drivers, vista 32 home.

[PhilTaylor 45]

Given the variability in PC configs, and that not all users with similar configs are reporting the exact problem - its unlikely simply switching to the driver I am using will do anything.my GeForce 8800 GTX props says:Driver date: 9/6/2007Driver version: 7.15.11.6367

[Guest j0nx]

>I'm noticing a 15-20% increase between DX10 and DX9. Saved a>flight near Friday harbor, flew for 2 minutes in DX10, bloom>on in the default Baron and averaged frames were about 24 as I>flew over land.>>Exited, changed the D3D10 to 0 in the fsx cfg, loaded up the>test flight again, flew same direction, plane, settings etc...>DX9 bloom on, got an average of 20. 17% difference.>>Now, this was near land and both were about the same over the>water, but as I neared land DX10 dropped from around 34 to 24>and DX9 dropped from 34 to 20. All during daylight. I'll>have to see if night time produces the same results.>>I'm on the 163.69 nvidia drivers, vista 32 home.>I am just confused by this. There is such a huge drastic slowdown for me with dx10 that i just dont see how you got those results. I have done nothing out of the ordinary on my pc. Try a bunch of saved games and see which results you get then if you get a chance. Fly around a major city in a slow aircraft like the cessna or bell helo and see what you get. Im an easy 50-100% slower in dx10 under those circumstances. Seattle was a killer for me. 32fps in dx9 a few miles away from the city looking at the skyscrapers at 1500 feet and 19fps in dx10. This is mindboggling.

[188AHC 2,138]

Phil - Thank you very much for this information. I greatly appreciate your participation in these discussions. It goes a long way toward eliminating a lot of guessing on our part.Thanks again.

[slashed2 53]

I'll give it a go an see what I get. What are your system specs?

[Tabs 2,790]

Phil,If you guys can, can you PLEASE ask Nvidia to fix that ridiculous windowed mode AA bug that's been around forever where if a tooltip or anything 2D gets overlayed on the sim the whole screen below it turns into an old frozen image from when you first loaded the sim?The only ways to fix it are to turn AA off, size the window to something other than maximized, or run full screen.I can provide them with exact steps to reproduce it if they need them.It would be absolutely huge if they could fix this, the bug's been around since the FS2002 days.

[jymp 168]

Just noticed they released another new beta driver today (169.04) does anyone know if this one might fix our AA problems ?, Also I too want to thank Phil for helping with this (and other issues too) he doesn't have to stick with us but he does and thats very commendable, thanks Phil

[slashed2 53]

Edited to add that I updated to 164.09 from Nvidia prior to running these tests. My previous tests were on the 163.69.Okay, here's what I get with the same settings as before, took off from boeing field, flew south of Seattle and headed towards the skyscrapers saved a file called test and then flew towards the buildings for about 20 seconds: (FEX,UTX,ASX,ASG) High settingsFull Screen:Bloom on: DX10 18.6 average 26% difference DX10 DX9 13.7 average Bloom off: DX10 19.0 average DX9 21.5 average 12% difference DX9 Windowed Mode (maximized):Bloom on: DX10 13.4 average DX9 9.5 averageBloom off: DX10 13.7 average DX9 14.9 averageDX10 with bloom on or off makes hardly a difference, but you take a big hit in DX9 of 36%. DX9 with bloom off performed the best but the difference is about 2-3 fps from DX10 bloom on or off.Windowed mode was a killer for DX9, maximized or not, whereas DX10 performed better if the window wasn't maximized and touching the edges of the screen or the taskbar achieving the same results as full screen mode minus about a frame or 2.DX10 isn't perfect, I get the texture bleed through on the runways and the shimmering taxiway lines so I'm not 100% satisfied with it, but I'm not upset with the performance, at least for my system.

[slashed2 53]

I'm not seeing any difference, I updated at some point today and the Jaggies are still there. I think these betas are for Crysis.

[slashed2 53]

Addendum:Having both 2x high water and bloom on in either mode is a killer:DX10: 11.7 15% differenceDX9: 9.9With bloom off and 2x high water:DX10: 11.2 DX9: 14.2 21% DifferenceLooks like DX10 and 2xhigh water don't get along so if you are flying with 2x high water you may want to turn it down to 2x low, that's where I'm finding the best performance with light bloom on or off in DX10 mode.There seems to be no noticeable difference with bloom on or off in both sets of tests in DX10 mode, water is a killer for DX10 it looks like at least on my system although the performance increase of 15% is close to the predicted increase for DX10, water doesn't seem part of the equation as DX10 ran the same with bloom on or off pretty much.DX9 takes a large hit when turning on either the water or bloom, 33 and 36 % respectively.DX10 takes little hit with bloom on or off but with water high compared to no bloom and water it's about a 41% hit if not more.

[jdk2 1]

It doesn't fix it but then again it didn't make it worse.The issue is the ability to adjust levels of AA and AF like you could in pre-DX10. The jaggies are negligible but present. If we're offered a way to make an adjustment, all will be well.Regards,Jim Karn