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jcomm

iFly 737 MAX-8... first test :-)

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I did enjoy my first iFly 738 MAX test flight !

Didn't have much time to familiarize with the MAX subtleties, and the EFB and loading / fuelling interface is different from both PMDG and FSLabs (although it reminds me of some old addons I used in FSX times and were some of my TOP addons).

The "feel of flight" felt OK to me, the flight was a fairly straightforward LPPR-LPPT and weather was ok with light winds @LPPT, so I couldn't test the way this 737 reacts to windy / gusty situs, but it felt very good overall !

Details like I am accustomed to see represented in addons from PMDG and FSLabs aren't there, like some bias on the engine parameter readings (they're always in perfect sync) but I believe this is acceptable, and in terms of realism it only makes sense if the turbine models are being run externally and independently, something that I doubt is actually what PMDG and FSLabs actually do (?), so those bias are baked more than realistic... 

Need to watch some youtubes of full flights to get more familiarized with ground operations. 

I got the idea that the loading ops have to be completed using the satellite app before the aircraft is loaded in P3D, but I believe I've seen at least one youtube where the streamer was opening it and changing values with the aircraft already loaded in the sim (?)

Edited by jcomm

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12 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I got the idea that the loading ops have to be completed using the satellite app before the aircraft is loaded in P3D, but I believe I've seen at least one youtube where the streamer was opening it and changing values with the aircraft already loaded in the sim (?)

There's an onboard EFB in which you can refuel the aircraft, set pax load, set CG etc so you dont actually need to use the stand-alone config tool for the Max. Either way works though.Your preference.

What I usually do is set the Max up using the stand-alone config tool with no passenger load and min fuel, start the sim and then have GSX take over the loading of fuel and pax. To replicate the progressive fueling (since GSX can only simulate this), I use the onboard EFB to open the fuel valves and let it fill up the tanks for the required fuel amount set. GSX I use with the manually set pax count to load passengers during the boarding phase. Final CG once fuel loading is complete can be done via EFB too.

The only small limitation is that when using this approach, GSX and the Max Config tool both send fuel trucks to the aircraft. Its a bit weird to see two present. Unfortunately there is no way to hide the MAX-triggered fuel truck and I have'nt bothered tinkering with GSX to disable the fuel truck to have only one show.

 

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Mark Aldridge
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@787flyer, thank your for your hints!

I am still trying to learn the various sections/sub-sections in the EFB, and while I did see a menu from where I could open fuel valves (for refuelling?) I didn't find the payload or PAX + Cargo section. 

I never used GSX, but I have been reading and watching so many youtubes where it is present that I really think I should give it a try.

One aspect of GSX I have read and didn't motivate me that much was that users had to manually configure it gate by gate at the airports they plan to use (?) If that's the case then it's just too complex for me ( way to much time having to be spent on that for my liking... )  But! if there's some kind of default setup, like in FSHUDbeing able to opt for native AI aircraft instead of having to use an AI liveries manager, then I think I'll "buy it" 🙂

Just one more question, for which I didn't get the answer from what you wrote: Can Iuse the Config Tool to adjust PAX / Cargo and even Fuel to load "on-the-fly" with a P3D session already running and the aircraft at a gate or ready for departure, or should it be used only before the P3D session starts?

EDIT: Had to ask, from your AVATAR - what about the QW 787 fleet ? Is it a good option too ? I was hesitating between that one and the 737 MAX, and since the 737 was cheaper now I bought it, but I am still considering the QW 787.

Edited by jcomm

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GSX works well using the default settings. There are a multitude of options available: create your own pushback route, different jetway types, walk-in gates etc, but if you turn up at an airport without any pre-planning, it works. A read of the manual is essential, along with several cups of coffee.

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Rob Jones.

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4 hours ago, jcomm said:

One aspect of GSX I have read and didn't motivate me that much was that users had to manually configure it gate by gate at the airports they plan to use (?)

Naaah, only if you want to fine tune any particular gate. I only configured 3 airports ever: 
- One was an AFCAD I made of my home airport (SACO, never released, and not used anymore), and that's only because I wanted clear jetways (as in the real world).
- Another one (SKMD, freeware, I don't remember the developer) was because I wanted to set passengers walking from the terminal, using the same paths I used in real world.
- And the other one was because I wanted to use GSX jetways in Virtualcol SKBO.

Apart from that, I use GSX everywhere with the default settings, and no issues at all.

4 hours ago, jcomm said:

what about the QW 787 fleet ? Is it a good option too ?

It's a nice plane. It's the first one I purchased for P3D. It has a jump ahead function (same as FSL's).  I feel the FBW better done than in the PMDG 777, regarding pitch (blasphemy! 😝). Somehow I prefer the 777 better (maybe because I find the 777 sexier than the 787), but the 787 is not bad at all. Not for a $80 product. It's better than the updated Asobo 787-10 for MSFS (if you ever tried it).

One quirk: if you use a hardware lever for flaps, it won't work in the 787-8. It does work in the -9 and -10. I don't know why, and looks like QW has disbanded, so there's no fix in sight.

Edited by Luis Hernandez
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Luis Hernández 20px-Flag_of_Colombia.svg.png20px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png

Main rig: self built, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X with PBO enabled (but default settings, CO -15 mV, and SMT ON), 2x16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM, Nvidia RTX3060 Ti 8GB, 256 GB M.2 SSD (OS+apps) + 2x1 TB SATA III SSD (sims) + 1 TB 7200 rpm HDD (storage), ID-Cooling SE-224-XTS air cooler, Viewsonic VX2458-MHD 1920x1080@120 Hz, Windows 10 Pro. Runing FSX-SE, MSFS and P3D v5.4 (with v4.5 default airports).

Mobile rig: ASUS Zenbook UM425QA (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H APU @3.2 GHz and boost disabled, 1 TB M.2 SSD, 16 GB RAM, Windows 11 Pro). Running FS9 there... sometimes on just battery! FSX-SE also installed, just in case. 

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5 hours ago, 787flyer said:


The only small limitation is that when using this approach, GSX and the Max Config tool both send fuel trucks to the aircraft. Its a bit weird to see two present. Unfortunately there is no way to hide the MAX-triggered fuel truck and I have'nt bothered tinkering with GSX to disable the fuel truck to have only one show.

 

There is a page on the Max EFB, and in the MyFleet part of the app, with the option to hide the ground equipment

In MyFleet edit an aircraft, then click next. On the General page of the aircraft customization toward the bottom right is the hide ground equip.

Edited by Papacoach
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5 hours ago, jcomm said:

Can Iuse the Config Tool to adjust PAX / Cargo and even Fuel to load "on-the-fly" with a P3D session already running and the aircraft at a gate or ready for departure, or should it be used only before the P3D session starts?

Yes, you can use the config tool to adjust pax/cargo and even fuel load "on-the-fly". 

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1 hour ago, Luis Hernandez said:

Naaah, only if you want to fine tune any particular gate. I only configured 3 airports ever: 
- One was an AFCAD I made of my home airport (SACO, never released, and not used anymore), and that's only because I wanted clear jetways (as in the real world).
- Another one (SKMD, freeware, I don't remember the developer) was because I wanted to set passengers walking from the terminal, using the same paths I used in real world.
- And the other one was because I wanted to use GSX jetways in Virtualcol SKBO.

Great! 

1 hour ago, Luis Hernandez said:

I feel the FBW better done than in the PMDG 777, regarding pitch (blasphemy! 😝).

Ah! One of my major complains when I first got the PMDG 777 for FSX, and a few years later for P3D v4... Good to know QW has done a better job with C*u here !

1 hour ago, Luis Hernandez said:

It's better than the updated Asobo 787-10 for MSFS (if you ever tried it).

Yes, last aircraft I tried to use with MFS 2020... I tried hard to like that sim, just as I did with XP12, but both failed miserably 😕  I am glad I can finally feel happy with a  flightsim again... It's been decades - literally !!!


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6 hours ago, jcomm said:

@787flyer, thank your for your hints!

EDIT: Had to ask, from your AVATAR - what about the QW 787 fleet ? Is it a good option too ? I was hesitating between that one and the 737 MAX, and since the 737 was cheaper now I bought it, but I am still considering the QW 787.

Yes I have the QW787. It works pretty well but its not at the same level as FSL or PMDG., but its definitely flyable and has all the basic functions. Having said that, I believe the 737 Max has greater fidelity so I think you made the right choice by opting for this one first. The other perhaps important aspect is, its support. The IFly support team are really knowledgable and helpful. On the other hand, trying to get an answer from QW on their 787 is pretty difficult and their development of this aircraft has pretty much ended.

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1 hour ago, Papacoach said:

There is a page on the Max EFB, and in the MyFleet part of the app, with the option to hide the ground equipment

In MyFleet edit an aircraft, then click next. On the General page of the aircraft customization toward the bottom right is the hide ground equip.

Ah thank you for the tip. I totally forget about the other tool for 737 fleet config. I'll take a look in there and see if I can hide the fuel truck if I am using the GSX one.


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System specs: MFG Crosswind pedals| ACE B747 yoke |Honeycomb Bravo throttle
Now built: P3Dv5.3HF2: Intel i5-12600K @4.8Ghz | MSI Z690-A PRO | Asus TUF Gaming RTX3070 OC 8Gb| 32Gb Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200Mhz |Samsung 980Evo Pro PCIe 500Gb | WD Black SN850 PCIe 2Tb | beQuiet 802 Tower Case|Corsair RM850 PSU | Acer Predator 34p 3440x1440p

Mark Aldridge
P3D v5.3 HF2, P3Dv4.5 and sometimes FSX!

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6 hours ago, jcomm said:

@787flyer,

I am still trying to learn the various sections/sub-sections in the EFB, and while I did see a menu from where I could open fuel valves (for refuelling?) I didn't find the payload or PAX + Cargo section. 

 

Its in a different area of the EFB. From the EFB main page, click the Performance tab (2L) on the left side and then the WT and Balance tab on the next screen. You can adjust Pax, Cargo, Other and Fuel (the 4 tabs at the top) all from there.

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System specs: MFG Crosswind pedals| ACE B747 yoke |Honeycomb Bravo throttle
Now built: P3Dv5.3HF2: Intel i5-12600K @4.8Ghz | MSI Z690-A PRO | Asus TUF Gaming RTX3070 OC 8Gb| 32Gb Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200Mhz |Samsung 980Evo Pro PCIe 500Gb | WD Black SN850 PCIe 2Tb | beQuiet 802 Tower Case|Corsair RM850 PSU | Acer Predator 34p 3440x1440p

Mark Aldridge
P3D v5.3 HF2, P3Dv4.5 and sometimes FSX!

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The beauty of the iFly products is that FMC Navigation uses proper AIRINC 424 leg types (especially the RF leg type). For some reason PMDG is really dragging the chain on this one.
You can fly proper RNP (AR) approaches, and it does them well.

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Cheers

Steve Hall

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Nice, glad to see you picked up the ifly max.  It is a great plane, and looks really good as well. 

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Orman

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The biggest 2 problems for me is the iFly Max's LNAV/VNAV consider a waypoint be passed right at the beginning of the turn, not at middle, so if I have an altitude or speed restriction a turning waypoint, the aircraft will bust that restriction as soon as it staring to bank.

Another one is once in VNAV ALT mode, if you change the MCP Altitude, the aircraft will start climb/descend right away without need to press the ALT INVT.

 

Also, engine parameter is quite wrong when it came to assume temperature and derate. I have realworld data to play with, but  when inputted the realworld SEL TEMP or TO-1/TO-2 into the box, the result N1 is totally wrong. but it's understandable that after 747-8 (including748, 787 and MAX and probably 777X then), Boeing stopped provide Performance Manual, rather only PET software which is unlikely an average add-on maker could have access to, I have heard PMDG's 748 also suffer same issue.

I only tried a few failure conditions in iFly MAX, but it seems at least the ELEC DRIVE failure isn't showing what it should be, so I didn't dig deeper.

Overall, normal flight is nice, I'd say what OP feels lack is the "organic" feel of many system (like how the bleed react to change with time etc, etc), but most of the time it does what the manual says, just not quite feel like the same way if you know how the real thing reacts.

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8 hours ago, C2615 said:

The biggest 2 problems for me is the iFly Max's LNAV/VNAV consider a waypoint be passed right at the beginning of the turn, not at middle, so if I have an altitude or speed restriction a turning waypoint, the aircraft will bust that restriction as soon as it staring to bank.

Yes, noticed that too, but all of the waypoints in my test routes were of the "FlyBy" not "FlyOver"... Maybe it behaves differently in case of a FlyOver?

 


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