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November 29th 2023 - Developer Stream

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1 hour ago, AnkH said:

Sadly this lack of "knowledge" or completely miss the point of the raised issue is one of the constants in all Q&A dev streams since release. For many, many issues I got the impression that the devs have basically no clue what the community is talking about. Bummer...

 

The preparation for the "Q"-part in these sessions imho doesn't seem very thorough, to put it mildly. The cloud turbulence issue is one example, where Seb gives the impression that he only got aware and tried it out immediately before the stream. And then he confuses the up- and downdrafts with cloud turbulence. That is no exception, it happened in many Q&A's before as well. Then there's the everlasting topic of historic Live weather as a second timeline, where Jorg again emphasized ancient weather while most users would be satisfied with 12 to 24 hours to compensate for different timezones, which seems complicated, as Martial pointed out. But it probably starts with properly understanding the issue, which has been laid out time after time in their forums. And asking the community to provide locations other than Malta where ground tiles are swapping is ridiculous in light of an extensive thread in their forums with hundreds of examples, 500 votes and 850 contributions.

I can imagine this is due to the general fact that heads of branches usually aren't deep into details and I hope that there are employees who are better informed and can influence the development process accordingly. Otherwise it would be a bad testimony for their reporting system.

And then there are some - let's call them interesting - statements like the A320 being pulled because of too many crashes on XBox, while there aren't many reports in the associated thread and the slow downloads in the Content Manager, which Martial declared to be on the client side instead of server issues, although my computer - and others, as is mentioned in the associated thread - doesn't show any signs of a high CPU load during download with 2mbps. Interestingly he also mentioned those problems won't occur in Bordeaux, so they must have different client software over there. But hey, what do I know....

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Like has been said the misunderstanding and lack of knowledge shown by those three at times is poor, lest we forget the classic "what lightning in clear skies bug?" from a very early Q&A, that seemed to set the tone from there on.

Ok sometimes I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with regards to understanding the exact English written as it's none of their native languages, also Jayne hasn't always asked the question as it's written which was better this time around as the whole question was posted and spoken, whereas before it would be one line in a paragraph of details which would go unheard, so at least that slightly improved.

Overall this was a better Q&A but at the end of the day it's still mostly hot air until I see things change in the Sim, as always actions speak louder than words.

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Apparently CU V was announced in the livestream but I can’t find it, does anyone know what it is? 

Thanks. 


WU Caribbean = awesome. 

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1 hour ago, Tom_L said:

And then there are some - let's call them interesting - statements like the A320 being pulled because of too many crashes on XBox, while there aren't many reports in the associated thread...

Obviously that is just their way to say:

"We had to pull the A320 because there are some severe copyright issues going on with inibuilds but for legal reasons we can not put it that way."

 

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2 hours ago, AnkH said:

What is wrong with snow in summer? A lot, especially if real world weather reads 20°C outside temperature and the sim depicts snow on the ground... But I agree, this is an entirely different issue, but the freezing temperatures at noon is not. E.g. you only manage to fly at 8 p.m. local time but you do not want to fly in the dark, you switch the time in the sim to afternoon, yet the live weather will still show you the weather (and temperatures) from 8 p.m. of course. Especially during autumn or spring time in the northern hemisphere, the temperature difference might then be quiet dramatic...

I shouldn't have mentioned snow on the ground because that hints to the entirely different data-resolution - related issue with snow coverage around places like Milford Sound (which is said to be fixed in the latest beta?). 

What I meant was that we can set the sim to July but still get the live weather of December - which is the corresponding issue to daytime flying in the sim with nighttime live weather.

 

2 hours ago, MarcG said:

I'd think the problem with recording 24hours worth of world wide weather would be the sheer size of the file needed to create it, same would go for air traffic. That's a helluva lot of information/data to save either server side or locally, one way around that is if the user could specify a specific fight plan or area to save details within a set radius or something. That way it'll be much less data needed to record.

This argument that the amount of data would be too large has been brought up several times but it is not convincing to me - just as their talking about the data structure.

With live weather they use the worldwide METAR data and blend these into the current snapshot of the worldwide atmospheric conditions.

They could do just the same for historical weather. All they need is an archive of the METARs (which obviously exists and is not a problem regarding the amount of data - Active Sky has been providing these data for many years) and a historical snapshot of the worldwide atmospheric conditions that they can interpolate from just four archived snapshots a day, maybe going back one or two years. The amount of data needed for that cannot be more problematic than keeping a 3D-model of the whole world on their servers.

 

But...

Quote

Ultimately though, as said above, Jorg doesn't seem too fussed about this feature so it's not gonna happen either way.

 

Well said. We have been through this a hundred times in the forums. Still the devs seem to not understand the real issue thus cannot realize that it would not take rocket science to solve it.

 

On the other hand I still doubt that they really are so narrow-minded and ignornat as they seem to be. A rather assume they have some legal issues with Meteoblue that do not allow them to do anything else with the weather than what Meteoblue provides them. That would also explain why they are so stubbornly insisting on not opening up the weather system for third party developers.

 

 

Edited by RALF9636
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1 hour ago, g-liner said:

Apparently CU V was announced in the livestream but I can’t find it, does anyone know what it is? 

From the transcript of the livestream:
 

Quote

By the way, I saw it in the chat, so I put this deck together last night, and I totally forgot something: City Update 5.

Somebody, so anyway, City Update 5 is five cities, typically: Zagreb, Kiche, Kadis, Brussels, and The Hague.

You could say, “Where’s Stockholm?” Good question. So, Stockholm turns out that the editing is extensive; there are a lot of bridges in Stockholm. So we’re going to give this a little bit more time, but the team is working on it. It’s coming, we have it, so it’s all good. But when we’re going to release it, it’s probably in a few months.

 

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@RALF9636 Yes you make some good points re METAR history, hadn't thought of that myself. I don't think there's any licensing blocks here just the simple fact that Jorg doesn't exactly understand the Wish from the community.

He says and I quote from this recent Q&A; "We look at every single post on the forums to understand what people want and try to determine the better move for Flight Sim."

If that is the case then they really have no excuse in not understanding exactly what it is we're asking of them, or they understand it but simply simply don't want to include it.

But when you see past responses in Q&As and God only knows how many issues in betas that get through to public release, I really have to question that quote. Perhaps the moderators read every single post, but very clearly Jorg/Seb/Martial do not, so perhaps he was referring to the mods, otherwise we wouldn't have so many regressions going on years now as they would know about them...

Edited by MarcG
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56 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Still the devs seem to not understand the real issue thus cannot realize that it would not take rocket science to solve it.

24 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I don't think there's any licensing blocks here just the simple fact that Jorg doesn't exactly understand the Wish from the community.

It's not a lack of understanding.

Quote

Yeah, so with the current system that we’ve got, we’ve got a weather structure that has been prepared to collect and distribute the weather from our partners, and it has some specifications. It might be complicated to take whatever kind of data and ingest that into our systems to have proper weather and company. So, is that what you wanted me to say?

I think so. I mean, I think there’s the design effort around that, but then there’s also… probably not what you’re really on about, but Microsoft has a relationship with a company called VESTAS. They have something called the VESTAS Climate Database, and we looked at this a fair bit. The issue is that they don’t have worldwide weather. It doesn’t really fit into our system. So, I don’t think this is going to come soon, unfortunately.

Flight is going to continue to evolve for many years. I’m not saying we’re never going to do this, but this is not easy, and it’s not the longer term. Maybe I’ll go even further. Back in the day, we tried to make historical missions, right? Famous flights that ran into icing or something, and we couldn’t really do that. Sometimes we said, “Wouldn’t it be nice to have historical weather?” It’s really hard. So, I think it’s just be patient. We’ll figure it out at some point, but not soon. Cool. Thank you.


From what is described above (my emphasis in bold), *I think* that there are technical hurdles with historical weather that Asobo/MS cannot overcome with the current data provider.

The issue with Jorg raising historic weather, like The Great Storm of 1987, is more to do with his desire to offer historic missions/events and the weather to match.

Just my 2 pennies...
 

Edited by F737MAX
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4 hours ago, fsiscool said:

What would you do with live traffic coming in now on the opposite runway direction you want to take off because the wind has changed?

Turn the live traffic off? Why would you want live traffic with historical weather data? 

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3 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

While I applaud their vision for MSFS2020 and the upcoming 2024, I am stunned by their misunderstanding of some of the long term problems.  Do they really think the tiling issues were limited to just Malta?  :unsure:  The forums (including the official one) are just littered with observations.  And like stated above, they completely misunderstand the "historic' weather issue.

And we got the constant "we will look into it" answers for issues that have been going on for some time.  I doubt if they ever read the forums at all judging by this, they just get the community managers to gist it for them and a lot must be lost in translation.

While some of the future aspects they are working on look quite positive (who else thought MSFS suspension was a bit stiff?  I thought it was obvious), but their lack of understanding and progress on some of the older issues was very disappointing to me.  The planes still change direction with rudder use on the runway like an arcade game.  Very little inertia.  hopefully the suspension mods may help, but I think the problems in the code are deeper than that on crosswind response and ground friction maybe.

Another example, for SU15, I would like to see some progress on static aircraft sitting two feet above the ground or spinning on their roofs!  what use is better lighting if you are faced with that after you land.  Surely they must see these issues.

Now now, negativity is frowned upon here. Don't forget we have a shiny new plane and more world updates to come 😉 

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2 hours ago, MarcG said:

also Jayne hasn't always asked the question as it's written

No disrespect to Jayne, and I do not know if she is a flightsim enthusiast or not, or was before MSFS or not, but wouldn't this role be better suited to someone who has a deeper understanding within the community? And can 'get the point' across? She always seems to sidestep the issue, or isn't firm enough. For the want of a better expression, she's like a Californian teenager. 

Edited by Ianrivaldosmith
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47 minutes ago, MarcG said:

"We look at every single post on the forums to understand what people want and try to determine the better move for Flight Sim."

Looking at the 'wishlist' and votes over at the official MSFS forums, I find that above quote very very very very hard to believe. 

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44 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

No disrespect to Jayne, and I do not know if she is a flightsim enthusiast or not, or was before MSFS or not, but wouldn't this role be better suited to someone who has a deeper understanding within the community? And can 'get the point' across? She always seems to sidestep the issue, or isn't firm enough. For the want of a better expression, she's like a Californian teenager. 

While I have no doubt she is a lovely person, Jayne does come across as feeble, and seems almost scared to raise the point again if it isn't answered properly.  

It is just a shame the whole Twitch thing comes across as very hesitant and unprofessional.  We hold video conferences all of the time at work with people earning a fraction of their wages, such as service engineers, but if we held sessions like that, everyone would be asking why everyone seems so detached and unprepared for the meeting.  It is painful to watch sometimes.  I know there is a lag and possibly a language barrier, but still... 

Martial just seems well out of it sometimes, and tends to ramble on about subjects not directly relevant to the questions, or at times seems completely baffled ("we will have to look into it"). 
He does come across as if he doesn't give a hoot sometimes, and the session is just a necessary evil for him to get through. 

David Dedeine was better at these sessions in my opinion.  Very clear and precise with his answers, and seemed more positive - I loved listening to him.  Whereas Martial gives the impression the whole thing is just a pain in the rear end for him.

Edited by bobcat999
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4 hours ago, AnkH said:

What is wrong with snow in summer? A lot, especially if real world weather reads 20°C outside temperature and the sim depicts snow on the ground...

You are talking about the issue with snow in the valleys when only the mountains should have? That is (was since SU14 as far as I have seen it) an issue but why is that brought up in relation to historical weather? Imho the ignorance is not on Asobos side if somebody thinks historical weather would fix that.

 

4 hours ago, AnkH said:

E.g. you only manage to fly at 8 p.m. local time but you do not want to fly in the dark, you switch the time in the sim to afternoon, yet the live weather will still show you the weather (and temperatures) from 8 p.m. of course.

They could appply a standard temp curve over the day and retrive with that the current temperature at any local time. In a majority of scenarios it would not change much the flight aspects of the simulation in a very relevant way.

 

4 hours ago, bendead said:

I don't see the issue with multiplayer, if it working live, why wouldn't it be working with an offset, the client will be synced anyway.

An issue would be different time and thus weather settings for different users.

 

26 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Turn the live traffic off? Why would you want live traffic with historical weather data? 

As an application developer myself I can see tricky problems to overcome with such a 24H historical weather solution and your answer shows it. You expect users to do something (turn live traffic off) if they would enable historical weather. But expecting users to switch off one feature when they enable another is a nogo from a user experience perspective. You and I know these "users", 20% will forget to do that, get aircraft landing the opposite direction on the same runway and then write angry posts in the forums and post ridiculous videos on youtube. So getting a consistent user experience for such a solution is not easy. And there are many more questions.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, fsiscool said:

and then write angry posts in the forums and post ridiculous videos on youtube.

They do that anyway. 

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