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MSFS Adaptive LOD

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4 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Having followed this from the beginning let me try to give a summary:

Thank you profusely for that summary, Ralf..  Incredibly helpful here now on page 69.  With your summary and Reset XPDR's most recent message this topic just shrank to its latest page, LOL! 

This may be helpful for many of us at this point.  A couple of pleas for help here from anyone knowledgable on settings?  I created the DynamicOD_ResetEdition table I have included below after watching a video somewhere.  By whom I do not recall.  When I built the table it was without any understanding of how it all works.  Just almost-blindly building an array of numbers incremented up based on altitude for TLOD, and incremented down for TLOD. Again after watching that video.  Now from what I read in Ralf's great summary it would appear my OLOD table is inverted.  Is it?  The inverted concept was in the video but may have related to an earlier version.  Should my OLOD values increment up like the TLOD values? 

It also sounds like this is focused to work for lower altitudes where rendered scenery density is greater.  So is a table that reaches to typical cruise altitude a bit of overkill?  And is it possible or even necessary to build seperate profiles for different aircraft or different scenery scenarios?

Target frame rates....  My system specs are in my message footer.  I fly in true 4K with settings I will summarize below.  I am happy with 30 FPS.  But I see this apps target box states Average FPS. Should I set the target average to higher so there is a bracket with a floor of 30 FPS?  And how does this all work with MSFS settings?

Here is a summary of my current MSFS General Settings? These have evolved without much technical knowledge on my part.  I am a retired business exec, not experienced in coding or understanding it.

3480x2160
AA=Nvidia DLSS
Nvidia DLSS Super Res = Ultra Performance
Fidelity FS Sharpening = 100
Vsync = on
Nvidea Reflex Low Latency = On
Frame Rate Limit = 50% Monitor Refresh
DX12 Beta
Global Rendering = Custom

TLOD = 200
OLOD = 200

Medium for trees, grass and bushes

Terrain Vector, Buildings, Texture Synthesis all set to Ultra
Motion Blur and Glass Cockpit refresh rate set to Low
Other settings all to High

 

My DynamicLOD table.  I fly mostly the Hjet (Hondajet) to and from mostly GA regional jetports, but also in and out of cities with payware airports such as St. Louis, Indianapolis, Baltimore-Washington, Orange County (Ca), San Diego, Chicago Midway (but not O'Hare).  I avoid major international payware hubs like O'Hare, LAX, JFK, Dulles, Atlanta-HF, etc.

image.png.4977f41736b30135330a9439008ed5ce.png

Edited by fppilot

Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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25 minutes ago, fppilot said:

My DynamicLOD table. 

Looks reasonable to me except for the inverted OLOD settings. That came up in this thread as well and I never understood the reasoning behind it. To me it makes no sense because the whole point of this feature for me is to reduce OLOD when close to the ground to avoid stutters when approaching a demanding scenario.

With your system you probably can keep OLOD at 200 anyway all the time. Only if you see stutters when on final approach to a large airport when all the airport clutter and parked AI are loaded in the sim you can try to reduce OLOD to mitigate that.

Regarding the FPS target: If your FPS are capped at 30 (with a 60hz monitor and VSync at 50% refresh rate) you should set it to 29. So when your FPS drop below 29 the tool will shift your LOD tables lower for 60 seconds thus your FPS should go back to 30 quickly. Your minimum LOD settings should be below your values for the ground level though, otherwise this wouldn't work because it can't be shifted lower at that point.

Regarding several profiles: You might want to create another profile that goes even lower on ground level - like 70 or 80 - for worst case scenarios.

 

Edited by RALF9636
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32 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

With your system you probably can keep OLOD at 200 anyway all the time. Only if you see stutters when on final approach to a large airport when all the airport clutter and parked AI are loaded in the sim you can try to reduce OLOD to mitigate that.

Thank you.  So with this app in use, where should TLOD, OLOD, and frame rate be set in MSFS General Options?  And does this app work with both DX11 and DX12 beta?

Edited by fppilot

Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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4 minutes ago, fppilot said:

Thank you.  So with this app in use, where should TLOD, OLOD, and frame rate be set in MSFS General Options?  And does this app work with both DX11 and DX12 beta?

TLOD and OLOD will be overwritten by the tool anyway, so the MSFS settings are irrelevant when using this tool. So keep them where you want them without the tool. Also keep your frame rate in the sim at your familiar setting and set the FPS target in the tool 1 below that.

I use DX11 so can't say anything about DX12, but why shouldn't it work wth DX12.

 

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15 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

TLOD and OLOD will be overwritten by the tool anyway, so the MSFS settings are irrelevant when using this tool. So keep them where you want them without the tool. Also keep your frame rate in the sim at your familiar setting and set the FPS target in the tool 1 below that.

I use DX11 so can't say anything about DX12, but why shouldn't it work wth DX12.

   

Edited by fppilot

Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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5 hours ago, Reset XPDR said:

Replaced TLOD Changes on Ground option with much more capable TLOD Min on Ground/Landing option. When enabled your TLOD will immediately change to TLOD minimum when your flight is loaded and will stay that way any time you are on the ground. Once you take off and start climbing, auto TLOD will kick in gradually on a sliding scale up to 1000 ft AGL, then normal range auto operation above that. On descent to landing, when you cross 2000 ft AGL, the app will progressively adjust your TLOD down so that as you cross 1000 ft AGL it will be at TLOD minimum and there it will stay locked all the way to the ground, taxi and shutdown at the gate. If you are level below 1000 ft AGL, then commence descending, TLOD will immediately switch to TLOD minimum with no stepping as it thinks you are landing imminently. If you are using cloud quality reduction options, even though you are at TLOD minimum on the ground which would normally cause cloud quality to reduce straight away, it will only reduce if you are below achieving your FPS target FPS and recover again as normal. It is generally recommended to leave it disabled, as will happen with expert settings disabled, but enable it if you are getting texture corruption with DX12 and 3rd party airports or want your TLOD on the ground or when landing to always be TLOD min.

Is it still possible to have how it was in the previous version or is that gone? 
 

It worked perfectly for me just having it change TLOD on the ground and setting a minimum and max TLOD and letting the app do the rest…

I may have missed something/misunderstood, but this seems basically just like the Dynamic LOD rather than Auto. There you set what the TLOD should be at 0 AGL and then it slowly changed up to whatever you set it.

When I load into the flight why would I want to be at my minimum TLOD if my FPS are above my target? I’m just reducing the visual quality when I have headspace for a higher TLOD. 

Similarly, why would I want to be at my minimum TLOD at 1000ft AGL when descending if I am getting way more FPS than my target? I’m just reducing visual quality for no reason again.

In my opinion the previous auto version was perfect and simple. When you were below the FPS target it would reduce and when you were above it would increase, all within your desired max and min TLOD constraints. I really think this is so much better, than forcing me to a lower TLOD when I might not want it.

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tried both the reset edition and the autofps versions and for my setup (vr, modest hw), chasing fps with the autofps version doesn't run as smooth as the reset edition.  at least for my setup, fps isn't a good proxy for performance (smoothness).

the original premise of dynamic tlod was to decrease tlod close to the ground for improved performance (smoothness) and as altitude increased, freed up hw resources could be used towards loading a larger tlod radius.  the reset edition does this well.

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5 hours ago, boez said:

@Reset XPDR there is an (indirect) dependency which your app does not check for but caused issues when I tested your app on my (very) fresh windows 11 installation.
 

I found that simconnect.dll needs to have “Microsoft Visual C++ 2015 - 2022 Redistributable” installed otherwise it refuses to load and the simconnect indicator in your app remains red.

Your log file contained the error “Could not load file or assembly ‘Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect.dll’ or one of its dependencies”. Of course both of these are in your distribution and so I was confused, however a Google search later and once I installed the vc++ library, all was well. 
 

I think most users PCs will have already had this library installed at sometime by other software and so this won’t be a common issue but thought I’d share my learning with you. 

I've had a few people unable to get these apps working because of an inability of Simconnect to load, despite it being there, so this information is invaluable. Thanks very much for letting me know!


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MSFS @ 4K Ultra DLSS Performance with 2.0x Secondary Scaling |  VR VDXR Godlike 80Hz SSW OXRTK @ 5200x5200 Custom FFR CAS 50% | MSFS VR Ultra DLSS Performance - Windows 11

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3 hours ago, abennett said:

Is it still possible to have how it was in the previous version or is that gone? 
 

It worked perfectly for me just having it change TLOD on the ground and setting a minimum and max TLOD and letting the app do the rest…

I may have missed something/misunderstood, but this seems basically just like the Dynamic LOD rather than Auto. There you set what the TLOD should be at 0 AGL and then it slowly changed up to whatever you set it.

When I load into the flight why would I want to be at my minimum TLOD if my FPS are above my target? I’m just reducing the visual quality when I have headspace for a higher TLOD. 

Similarly, why would I want to be at my minimum TLOD at 1000ft AGL when descending if I am getting way more FPS than my target? I’m just reducing visual quality for no reason again.

In my opinion the previous auto version was perfect and simple. When you were below the FPS target it would reduce and when you were above it would increase, all within your desired max and min TLOD constraints. I really think this is so much better, than forcing me to a lower TLOD when I might not want it.

In my opinion the newest version makes most sense as I will be able to be at minimum TLOD on final approach. This is particularly true for those demanding situations, like flying into a major airport in a complex aircraft (as in my EHAM example above). 

Besides, in your case - couldn't you just choose to leave the "TLOD Min on Ground/Landing" option unticked? Then TLOD on the ground would be whatever you have headroom for. If you're above target FPS, TLOD will be at max. Or am I misunderstanding?

This new version does exactly the same as the last - decreasing LOD when below FPS target. If the "ground/landing" option is unticked, you could have TLOD at 400 on the ground if target FPS is reached. 

Also, allowing TLOD changes whilst on the ground can have detrimental effects for some users as it increases the chance of getting the DX12 ground textures bug. 

Here's a screenshot comparison of the previous (left) and most recent (right) version. I'm sitting at the gate at EHAM in the Fenix. TLOD is 400 as my target FPS is reached.  

auto-LODbefore-after.jpg

Edited by Cpt_Piett

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4 hours ago, fra147 said:

Hi all, and thanks for alle the efforts each one and most of all the Authors are putting on it.

I used for weeks the very first version I was satisfied with.

Today I tried the new version (I think the concept demo) and the app says I have FG inactive while on my graphic settings Frame Generation is enabled (4070ti). There is something wrong on my side or the app does not correctly recognize it? Thanks and sorry if this topic was eventually already discussed in the thread

If the app mentions FG at all it means you do have FG running. Your question is answered in the release notes for the app, which admittedly is probably a bit buried by now, namely:

  • Trial of new FG status indication. When FG is detected, the Target FPS label changes to Target FG FPS to clearly indicate that FG FPS is what should be set. Also, the sim status line will show either FG active, when MSFS has the focus, or FG inactive, when MSFS loses focus and your graphics driver automatically disables FG until you bring MSFS back to the focus again.

 

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MSFS @ 4K Ultra DLSS Performance with 2.0x Secondary Scaling |  VR VDXR Godlike 80Hz SSW OXRTK @ 5200x5200 Custom FFR CAS 50% | MSFS VR Ultra DLSS Performance - Windows 11

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4 hours ago, motishow said:

where is the linl of 0.3.7?

It is here.


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MSFS @ 4K Ultra DLSS Performance with 2.0x Secondary Scaling |  VR VDXR Godlike 80Hz SSW OXRTK @ 5200x5200 Custom FFR CAS 50% | MSFS VR Ultra DLSS Performance - Windows 11

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5 hours ago, fra147 said:

Today I tried the new version (I think the concept demo) and the app says I have FG inactive while on my graphic settings Frame Generation is enabled (4070ti). There is something wrong on my side or the app does not correctly recognize it? Thanks and sorry if this topic was eventually already discussed in the thread

I think this is just due to how the app reports FG on/off. I also use FG, and it shows FG inactive in the app. When I alt-tab between sim and app, I can see it changes from active/inactive. 

34 minutes ago, Reset XPDR said:

It is here.

Thanks - I was just starting to search for the link in the previous pages to help the user who asked for this 🙂 It' has certainly become a large and probably overwhelming thread for those who are jumping into it, but it's great to have a place to discuss the development of these apps. 

Edited by Cpt_Piett
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“Intensify the forward batteries. I don’t want anything to get through”

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3 hours ago, abennett said:

Is it still possible to have how it was in the previous version or is that gone? 
 

It worked perfectly for me just having it change TLOD on the ground and setting a minimum and max TLOD and letting the app do the rest…

I may have missed something/misunderstood, but this seems basically just like the Dynamic LOD rather than Auto. There you set what the TLOD should be at 0 AGL and then it slowly changed up to whatever you set it.

When I load into the flight why would I want to be at my minimum TLOD if my FPS are above my target? I’m just reducing the visual quality when I have headspace for a higher TLOD. 

Similarly, why would I want to be at my minimum TLOD at 1000ft AGL when descending if I am getting way more FPS than my target? I’m just reducing visual quality for no reason again.

In my opinion the previous auto version was perfect and simple. When you were below the FPS target it would reduce and when you were above it would increase, all within your desired max and min TLOD constraints. I really think this is so much better, than forcing me to a lower TLOD when I might not want it.

The new TLOD Min on Ground/Landing option was included as an option because quite a few people wanted it for airliner ops to give it DynamicLOD-like behaviour on the ground and while landing and AutoFPS while in the air.

If you uncheck this new TLOD Min on Ground/Landing option, or uncheck the Use Expert Settings option, the app will function exactly like it did before except for:

  • Slightly modified normal auto FPS behaviour, ie. when TLOD Min on Ground/Landing is not enabled, so that auto FPS will function when moving on the ground but only a rate of 1 TLOD step per second in the appropriate direction. In my testing, this still provides a stutter free taxi, take off and landing rolls, as the changes are so small, but it now gives you a more consistent FPS when taxiing around large airports as different complexity of scenery, AI and MP traffic come into view.

Ryzen 7 5800X3D | Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB | 32GB 3200MHz RAM | 2TB + 1TB NVME SSD | 2GB SSD | 2GB HDD | Corsair RM850 PSU | 240mm AIO | Buttkicker Gamer 2 | Thrustmaster T.16000M Flight Pack | 75" 4K60 TV | 40" 4K60 TV | Quest 3 | DOF Reality H3 Motion Platform

MSFS @ 4K Ultra DLSS Performance with 2.0x Secondary Scaling |  VR VDXR Godlike 80Hz SSW OXRTK @ 5200x5200 Custom FFR CAS 50% | MSFS VR Ultra DLSS Performance - Windows 11

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