I’m going to make the case again for my idea of a “my sim vs your sim” forum.

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

you're here doing what you and your gang always does

Seriously Noel...? And what are you here for?

26 minutes ago, Noel said:

BS, that's ludicrous none of the early developers have had anything to do w/ MSFS beyond some legacy code very little of which is in use currently whereas XP has been under the same developer for all of those 24y.  You full well know MS parked flight simulation in terms of development many many years so your logic is just usual:  you're here doing what you and your gang always does:  scout for positive messaging on the MSFS forum then jump in to do your very best to denigrate it, usually in the hopes of shutting it down.  Hopefully the moderators can track what you're doing, yet again, and again.

If you believe that MSFS is an entirely new, or almost entirely new flight sim, built almost from the ground up, then I'm not even going to entertain that.  

26 minutes ago, Noel said:

You full well know MS parked flight simulation in terms of development many many years so your logic is just usual:

2 letters and a number for you.  P3D.  Here's a bit of info for you.

Following the closure of the Aces Game Studio in January 2009, Lockheed Martin announced in late 2009 that they had negotiated with Microsoft a licensing agreement to purchase the intellectual property (including source code) for the Microsoft ESP product. It is the commercial-use version of Flight Simulator X SP2. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by GoranM

12 minutes ago, Noel said:

BS, that's ludicrous none of the early developers have had anything to do w/ MSFS beyond some legacy code very little of which is in use currently whereas XP has been under the same developer for all of those 24y.  You full well know MS parked flight simulation in terms of development many many years so your logic is just usual:  you're here doing what you and your gang always does:  scout for positive messaging on the MSFS forum then jump in to do your very best to denigrate it, usually in the hopes of shutting it down.  Hopefully the moderators can track what you're doing, yet again, and again.

I would imagine as MSFS keeps getting bigger and bigger as far as it's market share, that some of these people that keep trying to deny reality, are going to wind up with all sorts of physical and mental issues. That happens when you keep beating your head against a wall...😉

Why are people Everytime trying to get their "right"?

And what is the goal of that?

Does it change the market?

Does it change or influence the subject of what you are talking about here?

So....1hy not let everybody has his opinion and just make up your very own mind and opinion. 

Xplane. MSFS AND P3D are out here and you can have them all, or one, or two or non of them. 

It's so nice to have a choice. 

🙂

O yes.....and in my opinion since MSFS was announced their has something changed in the market. 

Some did like it and some not. 

 

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by mpo910

This survey ist just a marketing tool for Navigraph. 

2 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

This survey ist just a marketing tool for Navigraph. 

THANK YOU!!  

17 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Seriously Noel...? And what are you here for?

Well he's not trying to shut a thread down, that's for sure.

This survey is a survey and someone who claims its is whatever it is and isn't an employee of navigraph is assuming something.

I like this survey.....and I did fill it out as well. 

And marketing or not .....I don't care and I whish you guys and girls here would let this discussion about assumptions go ...and step out of it. 

 

Just now, Krakin said:

Well he's not trying to shut a thread down, that's for sure

I understand what you are trying to say, but come on, why use words like 'you and your gang'? What is that even supposed to mean? It sounds degrading to me. I really do not see the need for this kind of bickering. I call that when I see it. I couldn't care less if the thread gets locked.

40 minutes ago, Noel said:

 you're here doing what you and your gang always does:  scout for positive messaging on the MSFS forum then jump in to do your very best to denigrate it, usually in the hopes of shutting it down.  Hopefully the moderators can track what you're doing, yet again, and again.

Sadly, I agree Noel.  Can the mods do something about the usual suspects from the XP forum (even the P3D diehards don't bother us in the MSFS forum anymore). I would really like to keep this thread open for discussion and this Navigraph survey is an interesting thread.  But time and time again, the usual suspects from the XP forum are getting our threads in the MSFS forum locked, and it's the same handful of people from the XP forum time and time again.

 

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by abrams_tank

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

- similar to the age results and not understanding basic math, some are clinging to the RTX 4090 getting the individual highest percentage of 14.5% .. umm so that means 85.5% are using the 3080 or lower, and ~65% are using lower than a 3080 🙂

(and even if the 4090 was the actual majority, it is still silly to infer from that the "seriousness" of the summer, or what sim platforms they are fans of)

- it's pure nonsense to say the survey is biased, or that it's skewed towards fans of one sim. If anything it is skewed towards more serious simmers (which means all current civilian sims get a chance at fair representation)

Bottom line, the one group of folks who are taking these results seriously without any bias or hot takes are 3rd party developers. The last two years of surveys, along with what they are seeing in their sales has driven them to focus on the sim platform(s) and kind of fidelity the users are demanding.

Mostly agree and nothing new - but you gotta tell most folks things "a few" times before it sinks in. Probably more for flight simmers 😂

I'll disagree with you on the 4090 - in any normal distribution an extremely expensive, recently released premium product should be a small outlier rather than show a peak of any kind. Particularly given the radical price delta between it and the next lower priced card.

Nobody said the survey is skewed towards fans of a sim. The data ARE skewed simply because of the method used to collect the sample. This is a statistical truism as old as time, and the only nonsense is in the heads of anyone who disagrees with it.

But if you choose not to believe me, then believe Navigraph as they themselves wrote it right there in their own survey summary.

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Can the mods do something about the usual suspects from the XP forum (even the P3D diehards don't bother us in the MSFS forum anymore).

If I were a mod I would start by doing something about remarks like these. Despite which subforum they're posted in. Why for **** sake is it so hard to accept different opinions? Calling for others to be excluded. Hmmm... 

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by Rimshot

4 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

If I were a mod I would start by doing something about remarks like these. Despite which subforum they're posted in. Why for **** sake is it so hard to accept different opinions? Calling for others to be excluded. Hmmm... 

I'm fine if they keep the temperature down. But how many threads have the same XP members gotten locked in the MSFS forum this year and last year? I don't like excluding either, but the same people keep getting the threads here in the MSFS forum locked.  It's becoming repetitive at this point.  They just come in here and stir the pot.

Over and over again, the threads in the MSFS forum are largely peaceful and are flowing normally, until the same members enter the thread, raise the temperature, and get the thread locked. SMH.

PS. You'll notice that they are freely talking about MSFS in their Navigraph thread. Meanwhile, we here in the MSFS forum, have to avoid mentioning XP at all in this Navigraph thread, to prevent the same XP members from entering this thread and getting it locked. How is that fair? Many of us are "self censoring" any mention of XP in the MSFS forum now while they are free to discuss MSFS all they want in their Navigraph thread.

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by abrams_tank

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

But how many threads have the same XP members gotten locked in the MSFS forum this year and last year?

That's a fair question. But you could also point to a few of us (meaning flight simmers in general) getting threads locked in other forums because of a strong preference for one sim 😉 I know I sound like a hippie, but you know, peace and all. We're talking about games and this thread proves again we're taking it way to seriously.