10 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

it'll be at peer level or better than anything else.

Oh Urgent can you imagine it? What would the new talking point be if that were the case? I suspect the detractors would just resort to denial if that ever happened.

22 hours ago, Rimshot said:

I also voted flight realism as the most important factor. MSFS is very satisfactory to me in this regard. One could also conclude someone who chooses realism as the most important factor chooses MSFS as primary sim, despite flight realism being of lesser quality than other sims (as many argue), but because the total package is more appealing.

To me the difference in “flight realism” between both games (FS2020 and x plane) isn’t that much really and none of the sims feel all that realistic yet, physics wise, especially on the larger aircraft.

The difference in the realism created by the overall experience with visuals and scenery etc makes FS2020 a far more realistic flying experience than xplane though imho.

As ever each to their own, and some here are obviously defending business interests etc, but arguing over which flying game is ‘best’ seems a bit silly. 
 

The survey clearly shows FS2020 is the sim of choice now though and the others are unfortunately falling further and further behind and relying on loyalty and a perception of being marginally better in some areas. 
 

TBH I’m surprised xplane haven’t teamed up with google or apple, as a sim with a reputation for ok physics and google imagery or even apple imagery and their awesome 3d scenery coverage would be fantastic and even if you preferred FS2020 it might keep innovation chugging along nicely for all of us. 
 

Either way what MS/asobo have done for flying enthusiasts is fantastic and they’re making flightsim popular again outside it’s niche and the money available from all the new simmers is making a raft of awesome products viable on the platform now, even cool stuff like the free anniversary packs etc which would never have been available free without the reach of things like marketplace and the larger user base. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 20232 yr by g-liner
Slightly improved punctuation and grammar

8 hours ago, Scottoest said:

This has been going on since before the sim even came out, when mSparks was all over every thread here peddling uninformed, disingenuous nonsense for so long that he ended up getting banned from the entire subforum (or at least that was my understanding).

I have had a good deal of abuse from the other camp but never from mSparks. He argues without rancour and without without personal attacks. And his persistence is truly astonishing. It's true that his world view is very narrow and that he has little empathy for those who aren't in his privileged position but that's OK.

29 minutes ago, g-liner said:

TBH I’m surprised xplane haven’t teamed up with google or apple, as a sim with a reputation for ok physics and google imagery or even apple imagery and their awesome 3d scenery coverage would be fantastic and even if you preferred FS2020 it might keep innovation chugging along nicely for all of us. 

Meyer will never do that. He won't  risk the money. The reason XP has fallen so far behind is because of his failure to adequately invest in the sim.  He has sucked every last penny he can out of LR. It was basically just three men in a shed for years and years, as he waxed fat,  until FS2020 kicked him up the backside. And now he finds himself in a desperate position where he has to offer XP12 at a discounted price to shift some boxes.

But even at the discounted price XP12 just isn't worth the money. It's a £20 product if you compare what you get to its competition. It's too little too late for XP and Meyer's worshipful, brainwashed followers know it at heart.

Edited December 29, 20232 yr by jarmstro

I hope somebody creates the 2024 Navigraph Survey thread in the XP forum next year.

Reading this thread is becoming tedious.

38 minutes ago, MDFlier said:

I hope somebody creates the 2024 Navigraph Survey thread in the XP forum next year.

Well, there actually is one about the latest survey:

… but it hasn’t really ruffled anyone’s feathers, so I guess that’s why they showed up here?

1 minute ago, SierraDelta said:

Well, there actually is one about the latest survey:

… but it hasn’t really ruffled anyone’s feathers, so I guess that’s why they showed up here?

Hmmm... I had no idea.

I've never been in the same room with a live copy of XP so I've never visited that forum. I sorta figured that's why Avsim had separate forums. I would very much prefer to know absolutely nothing about XP, not due to any sort of bias, just that I don't use it and don't have time for a 2nd sim. Unfortunately, it seems that won't be possible.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:32 AM, jarmstro said:

And the woke, who don't mind answering nonsensical questions such as "What is your gender".

People have been asking that question on surveys/questionnaires for centuries. Get over yourself.

Edited December 29, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

But it's funny now.

14 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

That’s not going to happen. Don’t take my word for it though, take his….

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/80307-see-you-pilots/?do=findComment&comment=1213185

I suggest you read it again - he says absolutely nothing of the sort.

On 12/28/2023 at 11:58 AM, JBDB-MD80 said:

Yeah and what sim its that? most RWP prefer Xplane . nothing is wrong with that in that perspective 

This is anecdotal, but this is  @Mike_CFII_MEL's experience with real life pilots that he knows (and I believe Mike_CFII_MEL is also a real life pilot):

Quote

Impossible to get the bigger picture using Navigraph survey! Many MS2020 Xbox users never heard of Navigraph let along have taken their survey. This survey is more or less that of hard core  / Intermediate simmers, yet XP12 still doesn't do well. That's why the 3rd party programmers are leaving or cutting down the amount of hours spent on XP products.

The big thing going for XP12 is what's under the hood aircraft dynamics, physics and what-not. But how does that translate for the base platform and 3rd party developers going forward? Granted I've only had three type rated airline pilots in my flight deck and all three prefer MS2020. Two pilots (Boeing) had the opportunity to fly XP12 and MS2020 in my flight deck, both prefer 2020. The third pilot (Airbus) only flew my setup with XP12 but has flown MS2020 elsewhere. He said to me when we were done, you have to get MS2020. He's in for a treat next time he's in town, 2020 is up and running along side XP12.  Everyone else (non pilots) in my flight deck ALL prefer MS2020.

Also anecdotally, the Avsim forums are littered with real life pilots, and yet MSFS is the most active forum at Avsim. I'm not so certain that real life pilots necessarily prefer XP, I would like to see hard and convincing data on that.

Edited December 29, 20232 yr by abrams_tank

13 hours ago, Krakin said:

Oh Urgent can you imagine it? What would the new talking point be if that were the case? I suspect the detractors would just resort to denial if that ever happened.

It would devolve to something along the lines of XP being a certifi-able commercial flight sim and a Ford vs Chevy tribal thing. Which is to say it'd really get ugly 😉

Laminar would/will/(is?) have to really innovate with scenery and the other aspects of the game where objective deficiencies occur.

But if Seb & team can deliver a truly superior aero engine (and they've got a LOT of people working that very thing), then X-Plane would start to look a lot more like Prepar3D...

I hope they both continue to improve, and remain at least somewhat competitive with each other - it's better for us, the consumers, that way. We saw the stagnation that happened before 2020 re-invigorated the market and I don't want to go back to that....

 

6 hours ago, SierraDelta said:

Well, there actually is one about the latest survey:

… but it hasn’t really ruffled anyone’s feathers, so I guess that’s why they showed up here?

Well there was a thread even in the XP-org-forum. But unfortunately @Krakin had to show up. The thread ended up being closed, because he just wanted to spread his usual MSFS-propaganda. I don‘t have anything against other opinions. But what make it particularly disturbing, is that with the signature „noXP“ some of you appear as XP-hater (it couldn‘t be more clear).

I don‘t think anyone of the users from the other forum here commenting in the MSFS-forum, has such a hate-signature. Most of them simply use both sims and are very critical that‘s all. That‘s also a reason why they appeared in every forum about that very thread.

7 hours ago, g-liner said:

TBH I’m surprised xplane haven’t teamed up with google or apple, as a sim with a reputation for ok physics and google imagery or even apple imagery and their awesome 3d scenery coverage would be fantastic

This has been discussed to death in dedicated forums. It is simply not possible because of the licence-costs. So i am surprised you are surprised.

26 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I'm not so certain that real life pilots necessarily prefer XP, I would like to see hard and convincing data on that.

Some on AVSIM pretend there's no such thing as VFR -- i.e., that the detail and accuracy of a flight sim's scenery is irrelevant to real-world training. Let's keep in mind, however, that every pilot from the Wright Brothers to Charles Lindbergh to Chuck Yeager to Neil Armstrong began their initial flight training using VFR -- by looking at the scenery. So quality of scenery is important, particularly in VFR simulation.