How to determine what altitude to fly GA?

[rpowers 5]

Thanks,that's probably more info then I need but if it's no trouble I'd like to see them.I like flying the Baron.I liked the one you had for fs2 or 4 too.I still like the old panel not the glass one but I think I'll start working with it.There is a small airport near me (Newark,Ill) that has what I think is a Baron that has not moved for as long as I remember.It is just sitting in the grass.Ron

[Geofa 108]

Here you go-notice how things peak at about 6000-and your passengers (and you) get less tired!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/180260.jpg

[rpowers 5]

Geofa,Thanks for sending the info.I hate to admit it but to be honest,I have no idea what it means.I'm in the boat business (all my life) and enjoy learning about flying but have not gotten into the technical aspects of it more then to keep the gauges in the green and the speed high enough to stay airborne.I keep picking up more knowledge as I go along.Ron

[Geofa 108]

Well to make it simple-look at the middle column-(standard day-59 degrees and 29.92 "). At a pressure altitude of 6000' you will get 188 knts. True airspeed and a fuel burn of 14 gallons per hour per engine with the power setting of 2450 rpm and probably full throttle at 6000'.Look at the airspeed-at lower altitudes it goes down-and at higher altitudes it goes down-6000 ft. is the best. The fuel consumption also changes-but at that magic 6000' that is where the speed at least peaks.I just basically know that at 24" and 2400" rpm on my plane-at 6000 ft. I'll get a Tas of 186 knots and 28 gallons/hr. Go higher-I'll go a little slower but burn less fuel. So again -the simple answer is I always try for 6000 ft. Now if there is a 30 knt. tailwind at 8000 I will of course go up there.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[rpowers 5]

Thanks,I can understand that now that I know what I'm looking at.Just FYI my average size twin eng boats burn about 28 gals/hr at cruise too.Only thing is they only cruise at 28 knots.Heh,Heh.Ron

[Geofa 108]

You pay one way or the other! :-)http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[rpowers 5]

That's right.People heading from the great lakes to Florida now by water are paying big time.I had a very small float plane land at my fuel dock a month ago.It had to be a fairly older one and really small.2 guys just bought it in Duluth and were headed for Orlando.Seemed like a real advenrure to me.I don't think it had wheels on the floats so finding fuel was getting interesting for them because we had really high head winds.Anyway,I always appreciate your info.Ron

[rpowers 5]

Geofa,I just took a flight using your info and thanks,it is more interesting.So you go WOT and set your RPM's by pitch?Also,what zoom are using for VC?Just curious as to what a realistic view would be.I have 19" flat screen.Thanks for the patience.I don't want to be a pest but I am interested in learnig.Ron

[Geofa 108]

On my 24" monitor I am using a zoom of about .40 in the virtual cockpit-but what I usually go for is getting a realistic view of the instruments-I assume though it will be different on a 19" monitor.Here is a shot from pilot perspective of my plane-and then somewhat duplicating it on the Eaglesoft Twin Commanche. I just try to duplicate that approximate look with will probably be a slightly different zoom on yours.I'll just give you a quick easy way to fly the Baron. Take off everything full-at about 800 agl. pull the manifold back to 25" and the prop to 2500. As you gain altitude you will have to increase the manifold to keep 25" as you climb as you loose about 1" of manifold every thousand ft. you climb. When you level out-bring the manifold back first to 24" and the prop to 2400 for fastest speed-or 23" and 2300 rpm for a little less speed. Once you get around 5000" you will just leave the manifold all the way in and just reduce prop to your desired rpm as at that point you may not even be able to make 23-24" -and that maximum number will be even less as you go higher. Usually when I take trips I do 24" and 2400 rpm (or above about 5000 ft. it will be full manifold and 2400 rpm and I get about 186 knts. true and 28 gallons/hr.)-but if I am just doing practice approaches and not in a hurry I may do 21" and 2100" (much slower but the fuel savings are substantial). http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/180286.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/180287.jpg

[rpowers 5]

Gotcha.Thanks, that's about what I have for VC view.Going for 24" monitor this winter(which is almost here).Will use your info on next flight.I usually cheat,set alt and climb rate then set ap and watch the scenery.Ron

[bkeske 0]

>You pay one way or the other! :-)>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg>Forum Moderator>http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/Geofa, thanks for you and others providing some insight here. I've always wondered about his subject, and also have wondered why the realworld pilots (Cirrus/Columbia/Saratoga/among others) I do know never 'reach' for the higher altitudes that seem so desirable in FS. The answer is usually 'weather' when I inquire.I always try to fly per VFR/IRF rules to the best of my ability. When I fly IFR, I typically plan my route per low enroute airways (although I know these days with GPS, more and more pilots seem to be flying direct). As I always try to 'follow the rules', these airways have minimums to follow. In most cases these minimums (MEA) are below the 5-6,000 you prefer to fly, but they obviously increase out west (as example) in more mountainous areas.I guess my question would be; When are you required to fly per the MEA's? Only when flying an IFR (filed an IFR flight plan, and under instruction from ATC)? Can you get permission to fly below the MEA if visual conditions would allow it? And when you are flying VFR, but may also may be flying within a charted airway, do you have to fly the required MEA regardless? My guess would be 'no' to that as your are flying VFR, but just interested.And finally, when you do file a plan, do you establish your filed cruising altitude based on any minimum MEA's on the route? (I assume you are above them many times) And who decides what is a 'safe' altitude when you file a plan? And when flying out west, there are area's when the minimums can vary quite a bit. Do you typically fly your preferred altitude until you must increase your altitude per the minimum enroute airway?I know...lots of questions....but I am curious. ;)

[Geofa 108]

When you file ifr- direct or on airways-the controller has a minimum altitude for each sector-and you have to be at that or above it. They will not allow you to go below it while ifr. However if you are landing at an airport and tell the controller you have it visually-at that point you can go below this altitude. Vfr you can do whatever you want.This summer I was landing at O05 ( a beauty of an airport)-crossing from the west. There is Mt. Lassen at almost 12,000 and a ridge of mountains you have to cross-then the airport sits at 5000 ft. on the other side. As I was flying ifr-direct-the controller could only descend me to 12,000 as that was his minimum. However, it was clear and unlmited visiblity-I was able to tell the controller I had the airport in site well out-at that point he could let me go lower on my own as he cleared me for a "visual approach". (You can see some shots on my blog site).However, there was a time when I lost vacuum in imc-I was at 4000 ft. but could see that the clouds were thin and breaking up just 1000 ft. below. I asked atc if I could go 1000 ft. lower to get in visual conditions-and they said no-as it was below their allowed altitude. As I was in imc-I couldn't cancel my ifr and had to fly a no gyro approach instead.As far as planning-I usually look at both ifr and vfr charts. On my recent trip out west I flew and filed direct-until just west of Santa Fe-then flew airways thru the entire west. The airways usually are routes that for the most part avoid hostile terrain. The other safety part is the factor that if you go down search teams have a good idea of where you were (unlike Steve Fosset). The only trouble is some of them require flight above 12-13,000ft. and you start to get into oxygen requirements. I bought a portable oxygen system for my last trip and that took care of that. On prior trips-I flew the middle route thru Wyoming/Utah and where the mea's were too high flew vfr.For the high mea's out west-I usually fly the mea for as long as I can-again more due to 02 requirements for me and my passengers e.g. file for the lower altitude-and wait for atc to tell you to go higher.On my blog site-if you go to the second page-there is my complete flight plan for my trip this summer-although it was changed slightly enroute and a few destinations were changed.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[bkeske 0]

Fantastic response Geofa, exactly the type of info I was interested in.In terms of 'sector altitude', what is this based on? Can you find this info during planning? I assume, if flying IFR direct, this is what you would have to consider as your minimum? Or, as you say, you establish your own based on a variety of conditions, file that altitude, and wait for ATC to request you get higher (?).

[Geofa 108]

The ifr gps's have them (like the kln94)-however I have noticed sometimes atc will allow lower than what the gps shows. As far as flight planning going direct-I usually use a flight planner (fliteprep pro)-and then select an altitude that will keep me at least 2000 ft. over terrain/obstacles.As far as the altitudes-again I usually look at the vfr charts-plan an altitude that is at least 2000 ft. above any terrain/obstacles, look at the winds aloft-and try to get one that will get me there the fastest and as close to the optimum altitude of 6000 ft. for the Baron (and a good altitude for passenger comfort-turbulence and O2 in consideration here). Here is where computer flight planners save mucho time-they import the winds aloft-allow you to see the terrain etc. and plan quite quickly and on the fly-fill out your flight plan forms etc.Going south from Michigan to Asheville, Nc. or Knoxville in the winter for instance-I might plan an initial altitude that is lower like 3000 ft.(due to icing in clouds etc.)-and then while over Kentucky where the air gets warmer ask for higher gradually to stay in non icing conditions and work my way up to the 8000 ft. that I will need near Knoxville. Atc will prompt you to climb if you don't do it on your own-but I usually like to be in control of it myself.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Geofa 108]

P.s. as another sidenote-what do you do when you are taking off from a vfr only airport-filed ifr-and the sector altitude is way high?Taking off from o05 to go to northern washington-I filed direct to Beira ( a fix in the San J. valley)-but there is 12,000 ft. terrain to go over from the airport which is 5000 ft. I picked up my clearance in the air (at that point the controller knows you are vfr ) and recieved the clearance-"radar contact-maintain vfr-proceed direct to Beira"). At this point-you are below his minimm sector altitude-to accept you full ifr I would have to be at his minimium altitude-kinda impossible. Therefore-although accepted into the ifr system and being provided traffic seperation-the controller is allowing me to do my own terrain avoidance and letting himself off the hook by telling me to maintain vfr. At that point-I am in control of my terrain clearance-not him. Ways to play the game to be efficient and get what you need..http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg Forum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/