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jvile

something weird east of Phoenix

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I thought I was OK with acceleration but I just had a hard reboot while flying the Cessna.I had set up a flight that went from Phoenix (KPHX) to Truth or Consequences (KTCS). I included the VOR that is just southwest of KTCS (not sure what its identifier is at the moment).I was flying along at about 9000'. The autopilot was set to NAV and Alt and it was following the GPS flightplan.I was in spot view and had been since shortly after takeoff. About 15 minutes into the flight, I started seeing these strange lines tat extended from the ground to way above me. they appearred in groupsas if they extended off of buildings far below but I didnt see any buildings.I've seen similar things when I was tried my hand at modifying terrain mesh.My frames dropped significantly when these lines would appear. If I looked down towards the ground, the situation became much worse. If I looked up, things got better.and then all of a sudden I got a blue screen that said my system had detected something something and it rebooted. it wasnt the standardblue screen error message. it was a full page of text that went by too quick for me to read.there is something wrong with Acceleration.try this flight on your own and see what happens. I'll try and come back later with the VOR that I was heading towards but its the one that is on a heading of 91 degrees and a disatnce of 196 nautical miles from KPHX Phoenix Sky Harbor.I think I'm going to have to uninstall Acceleration. I cant deal with these hard reboots. I thought they were limited to the F18 but they are not.

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Have you added any textures for the state of Arizona (mostly phoenix or East)?Have you added any enhanced airports for Phoenix or any airports that are East of Phoenix (AFX, airports converted from AFCAD, etc.)?Do you have any scenery that was designed for FS9 ported over to FSX that uses backward compatible OPT Code SCASM?Were you still within 125 Miles from the Phoenix Airport when this problem happened?

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hi guys - thanks for your replies.Chris - yes. it is the SVC VORTAC that I was referring to.Jim - no. I dont have any addons other than FEX. I'm not using any modified or addon textures. I havent ported anything over from FS9.I decided to 'decellerate' myself :)I just took most of the exact same flight (without Acceleration) and I had no problems.I have been in that area several times and I never noticed anything before (with Acceleration) but since I've had at least 6 CTDs and two hard reboots in one week (along with the performance problems), I just decided to uninstall Acceleration.I hope I dont have any further problems.Is Area 51 somewhere east of Phoenix?I was somewhere between 15 and 25 minutes into my flight and I was doing probably 90 knots.I was definitely within 125 miles of KHPX (headed 91 degrees towards SVC)

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Sounds almost like your graphics card or CPU was having issues.I used to get that problem a lot on an older 9800 when playing games like oblivion. Objects and structures would just start randomly sprouting large spike shaped structures. The longer I played the worse it got until it would crash the system. I believe it was due to heating issues as since I have installed a couple more fans it has gone away and never returned. But it could also be a driver issue or something related.Just a thought for something to look into.

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Area 51 is in Nevada, but that wouldn't mean anything in the sim or real life, except you must stay away from it. ;)I heard some suspect they moved Area 51 too.

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Dave I have a airport that I have been working on that started to do the same thing. I was trying to get enough information from your situation where as I could draw a comparison to help track down my problem. If I can identify what is causing my airport to do this I might have a solution.When I point my plane in a certain direction my FPS take a nose dive from a locked 20 to 2.5 in a matter of seconds. Once I am down on FPS then the spike lines and corruptions start occuring. The spiked lines like you say come off of anything that is nearby.This is only happening to a airport I added some unconventional code to one of the runways.If I remove the unconventional runway code everything is back to normal. I have other FSX airports using the same exact code and do not have a FPS drop or spikes at those airports.I am ruling out this brand new Alienware Area 51 ALX Intel OC as a problem which also is the highest end computer that they sell. My x2 GTX 8800 Ultra drivers are the same ones reported by some ACES designers that they also are using.Prior to SP2 this problem did not exsit. I am in the middle of my design work on this airport and the second I loaded SP2 the problem occured. That is not to say SP2/DX10 preview is the problem but I continue my quest to find a solution.

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Did you fly DX9 or DX10 mode ? Many have GPU driver problems (still...) in DX10 mode - me as well. But Acceleration/SP2 runs great in DX9 mode (at least for those with a 'virgin' cfg...). Heiko

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The only time I see this behavior is when I'm running with settings too high. Memory becomes corrupted... and if I let it go long enough I either get the BSOD (blue screen of death) or an out of memory error and crash to desktop.

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Why would you still be getting a OOM error after installing SP2. That is one of the issues it addresses for us Vista32 users.The new FSX.exe file addresses the OOM 2GB RAM limit on at least my Vista 32 system. Prior to SP2 my virtual RAM size was already in excess of 1.8GB, dangerously close to the 2GB barrier. Five minutes into the FS Sim, RAM had already hit a virtual size of 2.2GB which is at OOM CTD values.My Vista 32 is now at .7GB virual size on startup and holds that value most of the time. You cannot use Task Mgr for this type information becuase there are colums it does not display.My testing of the issue that this thread is based on is about the spiking of corrupt lines for textures and the nosedive of FPS that occur just prior to the spikes. This appears to only occur at certain Lat/Lon in the world database.I test under very strict conditions. The only difference between DX9 and DX10 modes is, SP2 DX9 causes only the nosedive of FPS. When DX10 is set to preview the spikes start showing up as the FPS are diving from a locked 20 down to 1.3. I know where the problem is coming from on my computer which is based on a SCASM code I introduced into FSX. When I remove the code everything is normal. I am trying to solve my problem hoping for a comparison that Dave was seeing east of Phoenix.There are several issues that SP2 introduced into FSX that were not part of the original runtime. Runways no longer have a Flatten associated with them. In DX10 no progrssive taxiway yellow lines exsit. Wing nav lights and strobes on most planes are now embedded into the wing which causes them not to display. The list goes on but we do have a post on FSdeveloper that is addressing these runtime issues. There are also issues with 3rd party like Phil has pointed out such as AI Plane textures but this is not a SP2/DX10 problem. It is up to 3rd party to align with DX10 and not the other way around. But, for those that do have Vista it is very important to read the readme on the DVD and add all the KB's exactly the way the readme specifies. If some are already in the windows update remove them and start again. There is a prerequiste hotfix for the KB940105 titled KB936710. The link to this KB hotfix is in the KB940105 under the full article half way down the page.

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Because I don't own Vista. I run Win XP.OOM in Acceleration can still happen. The whys and wherefores aren't really important, to be honest. It's quite simple, if you're starting to see graphics anomalies like being described here... it's time to reduce display settings.

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I am running DX9 (Win XP SP2 Home)I was flying along, watching the sunrise and everything was going fine. I was in spot view with a zoom of .5 and I saw lines which I assumed were a graphics glitch except that they were not gone in a split second like other graphics glitches are.After a few seconds of lines, my frames dropped to what must have been 1 or 2. Then the lines went away and things went normal for a few seconds. Then I got more lines and then frames dropped and then blue screen and then reboot.It could easily be that my system got pushed too hard.It never happened before I installed SP2. I've been running FSX since I got it without even a single CTD (let alone a hard reboot).Jim - I think we are seeing the same lines but I'm not sure if its the same cause. I have no experience or knowledge of anything other than mesh being able to cause what I saw. You say your runways cause it and so it could easily be any number of things that caused what I saw. I didnt see any buildings or runways or anything below me that could be the source of the lines. The ground didnt look 'odd' either.maybe it was just settings that were too high. It could also be that I removed all the tweaks from FSX config.maybe I shouldnt have removed the tweaks.I'll see how things go over the next months. maybe problems will be identified and patches issued. hopefully.but if I can run FSX SP1 with higher settings and higher res textures from FEX and it all still works without crashes or reboots -- why the heck wouldnt I do just that? and that is what I have done :)ya'll have fun chasin down the jets :)

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DaveThe difference here is that I can force Vista FSX/SP2/DX9 or DX10 to display the spikes and drag down the FPS to 1.4. What I don't know is why it does it.I do not agree with Ed about lowering the display settings. This has nothing to do with it. I test my design work as I build and you can't lower all the scenery of FSX any lower then completly off and I still can force the problem. Now maybe some can help eliminate the problem with settings but that is only addressing the symptom and not the cause. Too many treat symptoms in FSX and not causes. I would not have needed that bottle of asperin this morning if I had not drank the 5th of Scotch last night.If you have my FSX KATL airport found here on AVSIM, 2 of the runways use the code I introduced where all 5 parallel runways are open simutanously for arrival. No one or no other airport in the history of FS9 or FSX has ever done this. I even code what size AI Plane lands on which of the 5 parallel runways. My Kai Tak (here on AVSIM FS9/FSX) also uses a portion of the runway code for the AI Planes to fly the IGS 13 checkerboard curved approach. Now I go to EHAM and introduce the same runway code to the 3 parallels (with weight limitations and end closures)) so I can open all for arrivals based on AI Plane empty weight (EW) found in the aircraft.cfg file. My runway code causes the spikes regardless of a full setting of display options or none.I am one of the few here that can run every display option on full with a full load of 3rd party AI Traffic. I have never been able to drag this Alienware ALX Area 51 duo Intel OC, x2 GTX 8800 SLI to its knees regardless of airport size, AI Traffic and full on display settings with all options ticked. I do not use any tweaks or tips in any type cfg/xml like so many others use. My FSX is pure with no addons except when wotking on a airport for release.When designing airports I have to test for the simplist and the most extreme computers out there. I have to set many added scenery library and Guid options as a varible based on scenery slider positon. This allows just about anyone to download and use all the airports I design. Dave, when I saw your post I thought maybe I could get to the bottom of these spikes and FPS taking a nosedive. Presently I am having to design EHAM a little differently then what I want until I can find what is causing the problem that you and I see in different parts of the world.

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>Dave>>The difference here is that I can force Vista FSX/SP2/DX9 or>DX10 to display the spikes and drag down the FPS to 1.4. What>I don't know is why it does it.>Hello jimYou say you are using some SCASM code for a runway. By definition, this is legacy code that MS has said will not be supported moving forward. Perhaps that time is now (with SP2)? Is KATL + SP2 working, and EHAM+SP2 not?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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Hi MaceYes MS has said since the days of FS2000 and earlier that backward compatibility may not be supported in future releases. In fact this is one of the very first paragraph's in any SDK.We can only try each release to see what continues to go forward and what does not. I was hoping that SCASM would go forward and my code was working fine at EHAM until my SP2 install. We are slowly finding some errors with DX10 (possible runtime issues) and listing them on FSDeveloper for future expansion of the DX's. These minor issues are not related to the core of what DX10 does but areas that got effected (Flattens, Pushback Tug, aircraft lighting, taxiway progressive, etc.).The oddity is if you have my FSX KATL with SP2/DX9 or DX10 mode on the exact same SCASM code is working there just fine. Only EHAM is giving me the nosedive FPS from a locked 20 down to about 1.1. At that point with DX10 I start getting all the spikes, Cloud discolorations, ground textures creating blocks etc. If I run DX9 mode I just get the FPS nosedive and the textures remain perfect.When I saw this happen at EHAM after SP2 install I jump right to KATL thinking my upload was not going to work anymore for those that have installed SP2. To my amazement KATL and Kai Tak are working just fine with SCASM applied. My KATL is designed to the max and only extreme computers can run it with full scenery display settings. The airport has almost 300 parking spots alone and when everyone of then are full with AI Planes it will bring just about every computer to its knees. I design from this extreme ALX Area 51 so I have to address everyones type computer and tweak they apply using varibles on all related scenery added.My EHAM is nowhere near the extreme complexity yet that my KATL has which rules out any video or lowering sliders in areas of scenery.Yes I am using a nonconventional overlay runway at EHAM and if I delete the code all spiking and distortion are gone. If I did not have my KATL and Kai Tak uploads to compare to then first thought is to back off on the scenery display and give the computer some breathing room. This computer has all the breathing room needed to run anything Vista FSX/SPx/DXxx can throw at it. I suppose you get what you pay for and my extreme computer does not come cheap in the area cost.I would like to keep all 3 parallel runways at EHAM (18's) active so I can keep 18L closed for arrivals. Without my code, 18R and 18L become the prefered leaving 18C out of the ATC mix. I am going to try a pure FSX XML runway code and see if that does the same thing. However those overlays won't compile and can only be used as a test because of what the endUser expects to see in final product Visual scenery. When I saw Dave's original post I jump at the chance to ask him if he had anything other then FSX SP2 installed. I was looking for a commonality (for a fix) between what I am seeing and what he saw. Any thoughts?

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>>When I saw Dave's original post I jump at the chance to ask>him if he had anything other then FSX SP2 installed. I was>looking for a commonality (for a fix) between what I am seeing>and what he saw. >>Any thoughts?>>My thoughts are...the first thing that came to mind when I read Dave's original post was, "he must have some other scenery installed...".However, apparently that is not the case.And then, to complicate matters, you have the same code failing at EHAM and working at KATL, which on the surface makes no sense to me.I don't think this is a heat issue with hardware, and things don't just happen by themselves in programming--there must be a logical reason for it. I think there is some change in the way SP2 handles certain display items (such as lights) and this method may have a bug or two in it, or it may have broken the backwards compat chain with respect to the SCASM you are using.That leads me to the possibility that there is some scenery element or scenery type present near EHAM that is not present near KATL. And this scenery element must also be present near Silver City VOR... ?This is of course a guess but it did cross my mind when reading this entire thread.For the record, I have not encountered the display problem Dave and you have observed but I will be on the lookout for it. I have not been to your KATL since SP2 install but I plan to try that shortly...Your EHAM wasn't the only thing affected by SP2--I had to rework all of my gmax materials that had transparency for my MPDA scenery. For that, I am glad I put off uploading until after SP2.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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MaceYour thought and mine are in the same ballpark.Since SP2 I do have a slight transparency issue with KATL and the SCASM coded runway 10/28. When you go there you will see some slight bleed through of the Overrun/Blastpad lines that were not there prior to SP2.It is a little visual annoying and I will probably patch it as a update fix for SP2. The overrun lines are the XML runway thank goodess. I have now been able to duplicate Dave's original problem East of Pheonix. On a 090 radial "To" Silver City VOR the C172 at 9500 ft starts to hesitate. The studders begin to increase over a short period of time and then the FPS start dropping. Because I was in DX9 mode the FPS dropped all the way to 0.7 at which the C172 was no longer flyable. This Alienware never went to a OOM or CTD by the plane update rate was nil at that point. I did a end FS from the menu.I flew the flight again using the Baron and was able to get through that area with just a few studders and some high erratic FPS but kept going. The area in question is north of Tucson. I feel if I had been in DX10 mode the spikes would have also occured like they do when I am at EHAM when in DX10 preview.thanks for your thought input

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Jim - I'm glad you were able to replicate what I encountered.I dont know very much about the programming that goes into creating scenery and things.It occurred to me that I do have one other 'scenery' thing installed and that is FSG landclass for FS9. I dont believe that would make any difference but it is what it is.I have a thought on your EHAM problem. Did you compile it with the updated SP2 SDK? Would it work if you compiled it with the SP1 SDK?I was sitting here the other night and thinking about the guy who says "I saw something while flying over New Mexico (or wherever)". It's like I spotted a UFO and was trying to convince others. I think thats funny. Jim, I'm glad you encountered the same area of reduced performance. That means its a replicatable/solvable problem.

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>I was sitting here the other night and thinking about the guy>who says "I saw something while flying over New Mexico (or>wherever)". It's like I spotted a UFO and was trying to>convince others. I think thats funny. Jim, I'm glad you>encountered the same area of reduced performance. That means>its a replicatable/solvable problem.>>I am going to try to duplicate the problem north of Tucson on my machine very soon.I'll try to duplicate your flight as closely as I can, based on what you and Jim posted here.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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Dave, I use the SDK SP2 compiler. I will try the SDK SP1a compiler and see if there is a change.@MaceI tested a few more addon airports that are 3rd party such as Boston that George made over at FlyTampa. There are a few SCASM bgl's in that scenery. The FS9 Boston scenery works fine in SP1 but FPS in Accel/SP2 go to 1.7. On Phil's blog he references some of the code change in SP2 and mentions backward compatibility. looks like we are getting closer to pure XML. If you fly the Silver City test use the C172. Make a VFR FP, VOR to VOR deleting all but the Silver City. Climb to 9500 ft slowly (I had to use 300 FPM in the latter part of the climb or stair step)).AT 40 to 50 NM from the KPHX VOR the FPS should start to go erratic and drop. DX9 mode no spikes. DX10 mode gave me texture spikes.

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