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cchiozza

SWS PC12 Questions

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I recently purchased the SWS PC12 and are having some issues. I know there were issues with the takeoff code that were adjusted but it still seems to be very squirrelly on the ground right at 80knots. Is this still the issue for everyone? Also on landing why does it pitch up violently, it seems smooth and then major pitch up and begins to porpoise.? I have watched a number of live streams as well. I hope Asobo gets this ground simulation correct in 2024. I heard there is a ground simulation and a flight simulation that was causing issues. I don't have the issue with the BS TBM 850 or the FSreborn.


Chris Chiozza

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1 with brakes on be sure to run the pc-12 up to about 15 torque and let the prop spool up then apply takeoff power.

 

Edited by jwhak

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2 hours ago, jwhak said:

1 with brakes on be sure to run the pc-12 up to about 15 torque and let the prop spool up then apply takeoff power.

 

Ill give it try. Any idea on pitch up when in ground effect?


Chris Chiozza

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Every time I fly the PC-12, I get into that beautifully modelled and textured cockpit.  I turn on the STBY power and batteries and drool at the stunning sounds.   I start the engine and it gets even better.   I take off and think .... err, that felt odd but ok.    Cruise and descent is eventless.    Then on final approach, I get down to approach speed and it all just falls to pieces...... still feels so wishy washy and all over the place.   Plane starts yawing insanely on late finals. The thing approaches the runway like it has zero inertia and doesn't know the front of the aircraft from the sides.    I make it onto the runway but in the least decisive way possible and feeling like I've tamed a whale onto the ground......   and just think "Nah.. I'll leave this one in the hangar for a while".

I so wish they could fix or improve the approach characteristics (low speed, high flap, negative pitch) of this plane.  They are just not right.   If it's the depiction of the rudder-aileron interconnect that is causing this, I wish they would just remove it.    It's not worth sacrificing the flight handling characteristics to such a degree, just to have this interconnect.

BTW... I tried removing the interconnect, using Lorby's advice, and it wasn't any better on approach.

Edited by JYW
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Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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2 hours ago, JYW said:

Every time I fly the PC-12, I get into that beautifully modelled and textured cockpit.  I turn on the STBY power and batteries and drool at the stunning sounds.   I start the engine and it gets even better.   I take off and think .... err, that felt odd but ok.    Cruise and descent is eventless.    Then on final approach, I get down to approach speed and it all just falls to pieces...... still feels so wishy washy and all over the place.   Plane starts yawing insanely on late finals. The thing approaches the runway like it has zero inertia and doesn't know the front of the aircraft from the sides.    I make it onto the runway but in the least decisive way possible and feeling like I've tamed a whale onto the ground......   and just think "Nah.. I'll leave this one in the hangar for a while".

I so wish they could fix or improve the approach characteristics (low speed, high flap, negative pitch) of this plane.  They are just not right.   If it's the depiction of the rudder-aileron interconnect that is causing this, I wish they would just remove it.    It's not worth sacrificing the flight handling characteristics to such a degree, just to have this interconnect.

BTW... I tried removing the interconnect, using Lorby's advice, and it wasn't any better on approach.

I had the same problem but after reading suggestions on the forum, my landings are getting better and better now. When  you disconnect the autopilot and the YD, make sure that the rudder angle is the green arc and also don't go too fast. My approach is around 90kts and landing between 70/80 knots. It's not perfect but really easier. Hope that it could help you.

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Real Deraps

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1 hour ago, Lmaire said:

I had the same problem but after reading suggestions on the forum, my landings are getting better and better now. When  you disconnect the autopilot and the YD, make sure that the rudder angle is the green arc and also don't go too fast. My approach is around 90kts and landing between 70/80 knots. It's not perfect but really easier. Hope that it could help you.

Thanks. I'll certainly give those tips a try! 


Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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13 hours ago, cchiozza said:

I recently purchased the SWS PC12 and are having some issues. I know there were issues with the takeoff code that were adjusted but it still seems to be very squirrelly on the ground right at 80knots. Is this still the issue for everyone? Also on landing why does it pitch up violently, it seems smooth and then major pitch up and begins to porpoise.? I have watched a number of live streams as well. I hope Asobo gets this ground simulation correct in 2024. I heard there is a ground simulation and a flight simulation that was causing issues. I don't have the issue with the BS TBM 850 or the FSreborn.

Make sure you're rudder is trimmed into the green notch before takeoff.

Still in feel it needs a LOT of manual rudder input on climb and even cruise.  

I honestly haven't flown it that much. All I do is paint planes anyway these days lol.


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10 hours ago, JYW said:

Every time I fly the PC-12, I get into that beautifully modelled and textured cockpit.  I turn on the STBY power and batteries and drool at the stunning sounds.   I start the engine and it gets even better.   I take off and think .... err, that felt odd but ok.    Cruise and descent is eventless.    Then on final approach, I get down to approach speed and it all just falls to pieces...... still feels so wishy washy and all over the place.   Plane starts yawing insanely on late finals. The thing approaches the runway like it has zero inertia and doesn't know the front of the aircraft from the sides.    I make it onto the runway but in the least decisive way possible and feeling like I've tamed a whale onto the ground......   and just think "Nah.. I'll leave this one in the hangar for a while".

I so wish they could fix or improve the approach characteristics (low speed, high flap, negative pitch) of this plane.  They are just not right.   If it's the depiction of the rudder-aileron interconnect that is causing this, I wish they would just remove it.    It's not worth sacrificing the flight handling characteristics to such a degree, just to have this interconnect.

BTW... I tried removing the interconnect, using Lorby's advice, and it wasn't any better on approach.

All of this. I don't care how much the consultant pilot defends it, I simply will not believe the real thing behaves this way and am suspicious of anyone that does. It's ridiculous. On approach it behaves as though there is no vertical stabiliser and yaws back and forth as though it's a space craft docking in zero gravity and with thrusters to control it. Not 'knowing the front from the sides' is a completely apt description. There is no way this aircraft yaws into such an extreme crab the way this model does with zero wind and little power before suddenly deciding to crab the other way. What else am I expected to believe? That it can fly through walls? I'm also unconvinced the turn coordinator is synced correctly but it's hard to tell with the comical yaw characteristics. It's the most unstatisfying joyless aircraft to land in my extremely long flight sim experience. It's a real shame for me because there is so much to like about this aircraft but the yaw control, especially on approach means it's insufferable.

I hope they get some more professionals to consult on the flying characteristics of this plane. I have heard the views of a couple that fly it and quite a few more of pilots of other aircraft and their eyebrows have certainly been raised by what they have experienced.

I too tried removing the interconnect but it was still a dreadful mess.

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4 hours ago, Jazz said:

yaws back and forth as though it's a space craft docking in zero gravity and with thrusters to control it.

Couldn't have put it better myself!   Full deflections do little once speed is under 100kts, with full flaps on approach.   I totally agree, I just don't accept the PC-12 behaves this way.  I've never flown one but have seen enough videos to notice that it doesn't turn to mush on approach.

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Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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7 hours ago, Jazz said:

All of this. I don't care how much the consultant pilot defends it,

Ahh yes...the PC 12 "SkyGod" with a few hundred hours in the right seat.  I actually stopped visiting their Discord because of this dude.  Very condescending and gives SWS a bad look IMO.  Any questions asked are met with "do you even fly the real thing?? I fly it every day..".  Come to find out, he doesn't even have a sim setup where he is based so cannot even fly it...lol

This aircraft has potential to be so good but the bizarre yaw behavior on landing is just not right.  I have been able to mostly tame it by being configured for landing at 500' on speed, checking that rudder trim is just to left of the green band and then YD off.  If you do not have a yoke and rudder pedals along with rudder trim switch on your yoke, I'd imagine it is near impossible to land very well.  I have flown IRL since 1988 and have never experienced this odd yaw behavior on approach in any aircraft...ever.  I have a whole 1 hour of PC12 time from 1997 and don't recall the characteristics all that much but it did not feel like the vertical stab disappeared and was going to kill me on short final....😄

Something also changed with their Kodiak on a subsequent version as it now wants to fall out of the sky on final with slight power reductions so I eventually threw that back in the hangar as well....

 

Edited by Flic1
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Eric

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9 hours ago, Flic1 said:

Ahh yes...the PC 12 "SkyGod" with a few hundred hours in the right seat.  I actually stopped visiting their Discord because of this dude.  Very condescending and gives SWS a bad look IMO.  Any questions asked are met with "do you even fly the real thing?? I fly it every day.."

You and me both. Although, I didn't get involved in the conversations as I could see that it was futile. The delusional sycophants (a common theme on Discord) and this guys attitude persuaded me to dump the thing in the hanger. I'll try it in a couple months and see if some sense has been applied to it but judging by what I have read over there and the attitude towards the behaviour of the yaw I sense that this one will remain a write-off as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Jazz
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9 hours ago, Flic1 said:

Ahh yes...the PC 12 "SkyGod" with a few hundred hours in the right seat. 

 

I posted on their discord that they need a peer review by other PC-12 pilots and not rely on just one expert 

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flight sim addict, airplane owner, CFI

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Don't forget to keep the pc-12 torque coming in between 9-12 psi.

 

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Agreeing with the above comments. I think that, even though it is not realistic to this specific aircraft, they should give users an option to "decouple" the aileron-rudder interlink. I think it's ambitious to try to simulate but it takes an otherwise really solid aircraft into basic controllability problems.The answers are incredibly inconsistent on discord when these issues are raised. It's either: "you don't know what you're doing" or "if you don't liftoff at exactly 80kts the aircraft could do weird things so liftoff at 80kts", or "we don't see that problem" or "yes there is an issues we are looking into it" or "yes there is defnitely a problem we have to fix". But is can't be ALL of these responses to the same issue which is presenting. Sometimes their responses to feedback is really good and measured but it does feel like a lot of times they deflect back onto the user. 

They would be better off at this point really considering a redesign of this aspect of the aircraft. Give two options:" with and without interlink enabled". I'm sure that would be a royal pain to rework in their flight model but no one is enjoying this and also no one is buying the idea that the pilatus is basically a death trap in any 3 kt crosswind conditions.

I really like it otherwise and can tell how much work they have put in, but I hope they can see that aircraft control issues in the flight model are going to turn people off and have buyers (like me) put in in the hangar / out to pasture. 

Hoping they will have a major rethink of this one. Fingers crossed.

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I have not problem with take off, cruise in PC-12 . I do have yaw problem during landing at different speed. That is the biggest issue for me at the moment. Tempering with rudder trim  basically causing airplane to yaw and slip either left or right. It's very hard to stabilize which in turns make instrument approaches  pretty painful 


flight sim addict, airplane owner, CFI

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