Norway is a joy to fly in because of many reasons. One of them are the neat and tidy STARs which always align properly and logically with the approaches. Other countries often seem to make a mess of the final stage of flight.... Odd curves in the plan, having to fly over waypoints multiple times, things not connecting... Yikes! Countries like Italy and Great Britain come to mind. Love to fly there, hate the final stage of flight though so seldom fly there.

Anyone knows which countries have neat and tidy procedures like Norway? Preferably in Europe but other countries are welcome too. 

31 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Norway is a joy to fly in because of many reasons. One of them are the neat and tidy STARs which always align properly and logically with the approaches. Other countries often seem to make a mess of the final stage of flight.... Odd curves in the plan, having to fly over waypoints multiple times, things not connecting... Yikes! Countries like Italy and Great Britain come to mind. Love to fly there, hate the final stage of flight though so seldom fly there.

Anyone knows which countries have neat and tidy procedures like Norway? Preferably in Europe but other countries are welcome too. 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What "odd curves" and "things not connecting" do you find in Italy? Show us an image of what you mean.

In general be aware that STARs will look much different in congested airspace than in remote locations, which is why STARs in Norway will be different from STARs over London etc.

I do know what you're referring to;  nice STARs and transitions that lead onto a ILS or RNAV approach via an extended centre line. 😊

What needs to be borne in mind though is that the configuration of STARs and APPs is closely aligned to ATC.   In London for example, a completely different air traffic control agency will be managing the STAR, as opposed to the APP.    Thus, yes, you see these STARs that just end, potentially facing odd vectors, somewhere around the aiport.   In real life (or even on something like VATSIM), the ATCO will be your "smooth link" between those apparantly disconnected procedures.    So coming out of a specific STAR, you may be left on a heading and handed over.  At which point you'd then be smoothly vectored to intercept the APP.  (Or not so smoothly, given London's congested airspace!).

But as someone who doesn't really use ATC much in any guise, I do see what you mean.  The STARs that end at an approach fix are very satisfying, as you can fly them contiguously, without the need for radar intervention.

The alternative is simply to give yourself imaginary vectors. 😎  So after the last STAR waypoint, use your ND (or GA equivalent; G1000, etc) to give yourself vectors towards intercepting an ILS or RNAV approach.

Unless it's changed a lot recently (haven't flown it for 5+ years), the southbound STAR and APP into Dubrovnik (LDDU) used to be a nice contiguous run down the dalmation coast, concluding with a straight intercept onto the ILS for the southeasterly runway.

 

The Point Merge System - I remember the changeover: https://www.atc-network.com/atc-news/first-in-the-world-with-new-arrival-route-system

24 minutes ago, jonesrob said:

The Point Merge System - I remember the changeover: https://www.atc-network.com/atc-news/first-in-the-world-with-new-arrival-route-system

Let me rephrase my initial question! 😉

Which countries besides Norway use The Point Merge System? (If any?)

EDIT
Found an answer here thanks to Point Merge System tip: https://www.eurocontrol.int/concept/point-merge

I think I found a few new favorite destinations in other countries too now! 🙂

BTW It seems also other airports in Norway use the system: just landed on ENTO which also had a perfect arrival. Afaik all larger airports have perfect approaches. Perhaps some airports use the system unofficially or something...?

Edited February 3, 20242 yr by tup61

2 hours ago, tup61 said:

Norway is a joy to fly in because of many reasons. One of them are the neat and tidy STARs which always align properly and logically with the approaches. Other countries often seem to make a mess of the final stage of flight.... Odd curves in the plan, having to fly over waypoints multiple times, things not connecting... Yikes! Countries like Italy and Great Britain come to mind. Love to fly there, hate the final stage of flight though so seldom fly there.

Anyone knows which countries have neat and tidy procedures like Norway? Preferably in Europe but other countries are welcome too. 

like everything else they do , common sense !

Dublin EIDW is point merge since 2012

39 minutes ago, stephenbgs said:

Dublin EIDW is point merge since 2012

Yep, check the link I posted! Here is the complete list in case anyone doesn't feel like clicking links. 😉

DNMM - Nigeria
EGKB - United Kingdom
EGLC - United Kingdom
EIDW - Ireland
ENBR - Norway
ENGM - Norway
ENVA - Norway
ENZV - Norway
GCFV - Spain
GCRR - Spain
LFFF - France
LIME - Italy
LTFJ - Turkey
LTFM - Turkey
MMGL - Mexico
MMMX - Mexico
MMTO - Mexico
RJAA - Japan
RJTT - Japan
RKPC - South Korea
RKSI - South Korea
SBGR - Brazil
SKBO - Colombia
UACC - Kazakhstan
UBBB - Azerbaijan
ULLI - Russia
UMKK - Russia
USSS - Russia
UUDD - Russia
UUEE - Russia
UUWW - Russia
VVNB - Vietnam
VVTS - Vietnam
WMKK - Indonesia
ZGGG - China
ZGSZ - China
ZHCC - China
ZSPD - China

Edited February 3, 20242 yr by tup61

There are a lot more that are the way you described it... Most airports in Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland etc. all have arrivals the neatly end up at a 10nm final or thereabouts. Just have a look in general through airports throughout Europe. I know most STARs in Lisbon put you neatly on final. The destinations I've flown into in Spain do as well. 

I think it is kind of the standard. Most long back and forth snakes or strange curves will be at larger airports for traffic management or due to terrain clearance issues etc.

Sometimes the STARS have weird S patterns and things like that but ATC in RL will vector you in directly or give you a shortcut.

If you don’t use VATSIM what I do usually is check the flight tracking at the airport in real life and fly the same pattern by removing a few waypoints from the STAR but yeah London is a tiny space of land with massive aerial traffic it’s necessary for that area.

 

in the US you will almost always fall under vectoring control, in other words - many of our procedures are 'disconnected'.  Still blows me away that Chicago O'Hare has no SIDS's - simply crazy.

6 minutes ago, Mike S KPDX said:

in the US you will almost always fall under vectoring control, in other words - many of our procedures are 'disconnected'.  Still blows me away that Chicago O'Hare has no SIDS's - simply crazy.

Beats 600 procedures for one airport in Europe!

1 hour ago, Adrian123 said:

Beats 600 procedures for one airport in Europe!

Unlikely, but what happens should an aircraft need to squawk 7600 departing KORD?

36 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Unlikely, but what happens should an aircraft need to squawk 7600 departing KORD?

That is covered in the AIM, and also why the SID specifies to expect filed altitude 10 minutes after departure. 

30 minutes ago, Dave_YVR said:

That is covered in the AIM, and also why the SID specifies to expect filed altitude 10 minutes after departure. 

Following last received heading, I take it?