2 hours ago, tup61 said:

I was, yes, up to last Sunday.

Oh, thanks for the heads up on the state of BATC! I didn't know that it had so many problems still, that's unfortunate. But it's always good to have someone in the beta give us an update on the state of BATC right now.

3 hours ago, tup61 said:

I was, yes, up to last Sunday.

What happened?

9 hours ago, tup61 said:

I was, yes, up to last Sunday.

Aren't you bound by an NDA?

3 minutes ago, jetlag said:

Aren't you bound by an NDA?

I think he's previously said that they can give their opinions on their experience. 

24 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

I think he's previously said that they can give their opinions on their experience. 

Correct. You may not share screenshots and video's etc. but you can freely talk about the entire experience.

6 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

What happened?

I quit!

Last weekend I shared my honest opinion about the (at that time) current state of BATC and it wasn't appreciated by (some of the) team. To be more precise: they didn't like HOW I shared my opinion. Specially the word 'rubbish' was heavily frowned upon, to put it mildy. 😉 But well, I simply can't beta test something if I can't simply say what I think about what I am testing so I decided to leave the beta. I wasn't thrown out or banned or anything. I just didn't feel welcome anymore. And btw I wasn't simply bashing BATC, I was more trying to warn the team that the current state wouldn't be appreciated by new customers if it had been released. (It was good to see that a day later they posted that the 'soon' release wouldn't be too soon. Glad to be of help, haha!)

Mind you, I can sort of understand their problems with how I shared my opinion but still... anyway, I don't want to talk about it too much because some may think I am bad mouthing BATC because of a grudge. None of that at all. I will most probably buy BATC once it has been released (I guess I can forget about my free copy LOL) but I certainly will NOT buy it at day one of the release. It has to be a lot better than it's current state before I'd buy it and start using it.

Edited April 24, 20242 yr by tup61

1 minute ago, tup61 said:

Correct. You may not share screenshots and video's etc. but you can freely talk about the entire experience.

I quit!

Last weekend I shared my honest opinion about the (at that time) current state of BATC and it wasn't appreciated by (some of the) team. To be more precise: they didn't like HOW I shared my opinion. Specially the word 'rubbish' was heavily frowned upon, to put it mildy. 😉 But well, I simply can't beta test something if I can't simply say what I think about what I am testing so I decided to leave the beta. I wasn't thrown out or banned or anything. I just didn't feel welcome anymore.

Mind you, I can sort of understand their problems with how I shared my opinion but still... anyway, I don't want to talk about it too much because some may think I am bad mouthing BATC because of a grudge. None of that at all. I will most probably buy BATC once it has been released (I guess I can forget about my free copy LOL) but I certainly will NOT buy it at day one of the release. It has to be a lot better than it's current state before I'd buy it and start using it.

I've said it often, and I'll say it again: There's a reason that it took P2ATC 10 years to get vectoring really right. And it is - as of now - the only ATC in flightsim history that has accomplished that. When i read the posts on the SI discord that vectoring will be "fixed by tomorrow", I can only sit back and smile. Neither SI nor BATC seems to have any idea about how hard this is going to be and how long this will take (years). And that is only for *your* aircraft! Now imagine doing vectoring for AI aircraft too, and keeping separation etc. at the same time! I've heard FSHud has started trying this and again, I can only sit back and smile. They also have no idea what they took upon them.

5 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Correct. You may not share screenshots and video's etc. but you can freely talk about the entire experience.

I quit!

Last weekend I shared my honest opinion about the (at that time) current state of BATC and it wasn't appreciated by (some of the) team. To be more precise: they didn't like HOW I shared my opinion. Specially the word 'rubbish' was heavily frowned upon, to put it mildy. 😉 But well, I simply can't beta test something if I can't simply say what I think about what I am testing so I decided to leave the beta. I wasn't thrown out or banned or anything. I just didn't feel welcome anymore. And btw I wasn't simply bashing BATC, I was more trying to warn the team that the current state wouldn't be appreciated by new customers if it had been released. (It was good to see that a day later they posted that the 'soon' release wouldn't be too soon. Glad to be of help, haha!)

Mind you, I can sort of understand their problems with how I shared my opinion but still... anyway, I don't want to talk about it too much because some may think I am bad mouthing BATC because of a grudge. None of that at all. I will most probably buy BATC once it has been released (I guess I can forget about my free copy LOL) but I certainly will NOT buy it at day one of the release. It has to be a lot better than it's current state before I'd buy it and start using it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Sounds like your honesty wasn't welcome?

9 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

And that is only for *your* aircraft!

This exactly. If they can't even get it right for you then I really wonder how they will get it right for all the (upcoming) planes around you. And VRF is often said to be an easy addition for later on but imho VFR is just as difficult to get right. But mind you, the problems weren't just about vectoring.

9 minutes ago, jkeye said:

Sounds like your honesty wasn't welcome?

Correct. But as I said, I can sometimes be pretty blunt and perhaps a bit too honest, haha, so I can understand they weren't all happy about it, but well, as I also said: I like to be honest and open (and blunt if needed for the sake of the program!) and if I can't be all that then it's better (for everyone) to just leave.

Edited April 24, 20242 yr by tup61

10 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I've said it often, and I'll say it again: There's a reason that it took P2ATC 10 years to get vectoring really right. And it is - as of now - the only ATC in flightsim history that has accomplished that. When i read the posts on the SI discord that vectoring will be "fixed by tomorrow", I can only sit back and smile. Neither SI nor BATC seems to have any idea about how hard this is going to be and how long this will take (years). And that is only for *your* aircraft! Now imagine doing vectoring for AI aircraft too, and keeping separation etc. at the same time! I've heard FSHud has started trying this and again, I can only sit back and smile. They also have no idea what they took upon them.

The 3 body problem is unsolvable - imagine 100 aircrafts in the mix 🙂

1 minute ago, Fiorentoni said:

When i read the posts on the SI discord that vectoring will be "fixed by tomorrow", I can only sit back and smile. Neither SI nor BATC seems to have any idea about how hard this is going to be and how long this will take

I use SI since a few days now and if have to admit that you are 100% right. The vectoring does not work at the moment. I hoped, that at least BATC would be in a better state. Reading @tup61 post tempered my optimism. Even at the dawn of artificial intelligence the holy grail of a working ATC seems to be an elusive target.

Well, vectoring in SI was working today pretty well. I had 3 flights (simbrief, IFR) and I was guided from gate to gate without a problem. It followed the STAR to the fix and then vectored me smoothly to final. All done with the fenix, so it may be a different experience for smaller or bigger airplanes.

It has some burps regarding taxiways though - but thats a problem that probably only FSHud solves "somehow" at the moment by reading everyones scenery files and taking care of custom scenery. 

 

 

23 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

I've said it often, and I'll say it again: There's a reason that it took P2ATC 10 years to get vectoring really right. And it is - as of now - the only ATC in flightsim history that has accomplished that.

Errr, no. Radar Contact v4 had it in 2006 and it still works perfectly now. In P3D of course. And it didn’t take them 10 years. They had the services of a brilliant mathematician who was an expert on trigonometry. Plus AT Controllers from the US and Britain for correct instructions and Pete Dowson too with MakeRwys.

On 4/24/2024 at 10:59 PM, Fiorentoni said:

There's a reason that it took P2ATC 10 years to get vectoring really right. And it is - as of now - the only ATC in flightsim history that has accomplished that. 

 

30 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Errr, no. Radar Contact v4 had it in 2006 and it still works perfectly now. 

Add PF3 to the list. But they also needed years until the vectoring was in the perfect state it is now.

Both Radar Contact and PF3 do not control AI traffic of course.

Quote

Neither SI nor BATC seems to have any idea about how hard this is going to be and how long this will take (years). And that is only for *your* aircraft! Now imagine doing vectoring for AI aircraft too, and keeping separation etc. at the same time!

This. These newcomers might have bitten off more than they can chew at the moment.

 

Quote

I've heard FSHud has started trying this and again, I can only sit back and smile. They also have no idea what they took upon them.

You might be positively surprised soon. They have been working on it for a while and they are almost there. Let's wait and see what their next update will bring.

 

Edited April 25, 20242 yr by RALF9636

Just now, RALF9636 said:

 

Add PF3 to the list. But they also needed years until the vectoring was in the perfect state it is now.

Both Radar Contact and PF3 do not control AI traffic of course.

This. These newcomers might have bitten off more than they can chew at the moment.

 

You might be positively surprised soon. Let's wait and see what their next update will bring. They are almost there.

 

I still use PF3 on every flight, and while it doesn't control AI, I have my AI not swamping the airports with traffic, so it doesn't really bother me. PF3 also is updated at least once a year, sometimes more, and it works well for every flight. 

31 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

They had the services of a brilliant mathematician who was an expert on trigonometry.

If that's what's needed to get vectoring right in a video game in an acceptable amount of time, it kind of proves my point 😉 Also even that brilliant mind would probably have gone the way of "a beautiful mind" if he had to code vectors for 30 AI aircraft simultaneously.

Edited April 25, 20242 yr by Fiorentoni