Hi guys,

A cautionary warning;

When I signed up for Say Intentions, to use with MSFS for a month, what the wording suggested I was buying was 1 month of subscription. I did not feel I encountered anything that suggested that I had agreed to recurring payments being taken from my bank.   I know how subs work, but in many cases, it's possible to use a subscription service, while not utilizing automatic recurring payments.  In other words, one must make the payment manually each month (via Paypal, etc).   This is what I feel the wording suggested I was signing up, on SI.

I decided some weeks ago not to continue using SI, due to the lack of localisation (constant US controllers in the UK and all ATC chatter consisting of "UNITED 001 DIRECT LA GUARDIA!" etc), and assumed my 1 month sub would expire.

I found out yesterday that SI took a further payment from my bank on 17th April 😶

Worse than this..... I have been trying to access the "Pilot Portal" for 2 days, with no access and a Bad Gateway:-

 

If there's one thing worse than an unexpected recurring payment, it's one that you cannot then cancel, due to their website being down.

Edited April 26, 20242 yr by JYW

Works fine here. Try on your mobile using 4/5G. 

I've had no issues with the portal and have been on nearly every day this past week. Also, if you had some kind of technical issue that interfered with things for you, Brian and Co. seem very flexible in giving people extra days of credit. Have you raised it on discord? Someone is usually very quick to offer help.

Also, I just checked in my account and it clearly shows your payment, subscription type, when next payment is coming out in bold green letters. Just putting this out there because you're slanting this like they are "scamming" people, and that's not what I'm seeing at all. 

Thanks @mikethe6th

I think it has just come up because yes, I have just tried again and got in.  I'd been trying since yesterday morning.

So the subscription is cancelled but here's the next issue.  It is not possible within the Pilot Portal to remove any financial data (eg. card details) from your account.    So SI just keeps your bank details on their system forever.

Certainly under UK & EU General Data Protection Regulations this would be be non-legal.   Data subjects must be provided with the ability to edit or remove financial data from organisations that use it for automated recurring payments.

I guess such protection doesn't exist in the US?

This has left a really sour taste in my mouth.   Not the SI product, but the lack of clarity in the wording on the sign-up page of their website.   In the add payment method screen (you can add payment methods, you just can't delete them), there is tiny text that states "SayAgain can use your data to take recurring payments".  It really is deliberately tiny text, right down way under the fields where you add your details.

Who would agree to subs, if you don't have neither proper control nor trust in the company you are entrusting to dip into your bank account at any time they please? 👎😠

Edited April 26, 20242 yr by JYW

@JYWReally just write them a ticket and they'll probably refund the month. Those are nice guys over there and they do not scam people.

Also from all subscriptions I've ever done I always had to (manually) end the subscription. That's the basic meaning of "subscription" - you have to cancel it if you want it to end. Otherwise it would be called "1 month license" or something like that.

Edited April 26, 20242 yr by Fiorentoni

1 hour ago, JYW said:

Certainly under UK & EU General Data Protection Regulations this would be be non-legal.   Data subjects must be provided with the ability to edit or remove financial data from organisations that use it for automated recurring payments.

 

You can. Just not over the website. And please - nowhere in the GDPR is stated that you have to able to do it over a portal or so. Please don´t spread false information. And I know the guys of SI, they are absolutely customer orientated - open a ticket and I guarantee that you will receive a very good solution.

Also, SI actually DONT have your bank details. Do you think theres a guy at SI looking up bank infos and setting thousands of wire transfer the 1st day of every month? i doubt they built their own custom in house recurring payment system from scratch, they are most likely using a service from another company, like shopify, visa, or whatever.

Also bis, im failry sure they dont have a link to the avsim forum in their support page....

 

6 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Those are nice guys over there and they do not scam people.

so nice and artificially intelligent that they all work from some anoymous L.L.C showing no company address, nor a general manager/director on their web site. they don't adhere to GDPR? but they require your name and credit card info.

no thanks.

7 hours ago, JYW said:

Certainly under UK & EU General Data Protection Regulations this would be be non-legal. 

"Data subjects must be allowed to withdraw this consent at any time, and the process of doing so must not be harder than it was to opt in. (Article 7(3))"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation

I agree with you. just as illegal as not disclosing any company address, tax number nor general manager name on their web site.

say intentions for doing anonymous business.

no thanks

 

 

Edited April 27, 20242 yr by turbomax

You are just wrong. In any of your posts.

 

Art 7 is regarding consent, not your credit card data. But hey - try again, kid.

Edited April 27, 20242 yr by techman

18 minutes ago, techman said:

try again, kid.

is  there any need  to  reply  with this  remark

1 hour ago, pete_auau said:

is  there any need  to  reply  with this  remark

A better question would be "is there any need for the accusatory tone of this topic at all".
It could have been phrased, "I am having trouble with cancelling my subscription to Say Intentions AI".
Instead, the very first post starts with "A cautionary warning".

It turns out that the  "cautionary warning" should have been
"what follows is unresearched and based upon personal assumptions".

Edited April 27, 20242 yr by Reader

24 minutes ago, Reader said:

A better question would be "is there any need for the accusatory tone of this topic at all".
It could have been phrased, "I am having trouble with cancelling my subscription to Say Intentions AI".
Instead, the very first post starts with "A cautionary warning".

It turns out that the  "cautionary warning" should have been
"what follows is unresearched and based upon personal assumptions".

99% sure the issue with the portal was a DNS issue (client NOT server side), as well... no malice intended...

4 hours ago, turbomax said:

"Data subjects must be allowed to withdraw this consent at any time, and the process of doing so must not be harder than it was to opt in. (Article 7(3))"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation

I agree with you. just as illegal as not disclosing any company address, tax number nor general manager name on their web site.

say intentions for doing anonymous business.

no thanks

Is there no remedy for correction in your world?

Is there no goodwill, no benefit of the doubt?

No possibility that GDPR, an onerous and relatively new regulation enforced only in the EU, is something that a US-based company might overlook?

I'm not excusing or making an argument for SI - I'm not a customer and I have no skin in the game - but if we're going to tar and feather a developer without giving good faith for them to correct eCommerce oversights, then you've completely lost the plot.

Provide the feedback to the merchant, if it isn't actioned, make a complaint or post like this. That's fine, you just really have to give someone the benefit of the doubt and act in good faith. Not everyone is out to get you.