2 hours ago, vonmar said:

 

I use Saitek Yoke / Throttel system.
Throttle axis fully retarded activates a button that I assign in FSUIPC.
In MSFS I use a “blank” Profile so FSUIPC has full control of the assignments.

Thanks for following this up. I've noticed two issues here. First, ASOBO lacks an engine reverser axis and very limited engine code. Second, there seems to be another coding problem specific to the 787 and 748 airplanes, as other planes don't display this issue. It's very unfortunate and unrealistic.

 

50 minutes ago, LRBS said:

there seems to be another coding problem specific to the 787 and 748 airplanes, as other planes don't display this issue.

Just to verify you mean just on your setup, correct?

Also, which other planes?

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by vonmar

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Thanks for following this up. I've noticed two issues here. First, ASOBO lacks an engine reverser axis and very limited engine code. Second, there seems to be another coding problem specific to the 787 and 748 airplanes, as other planes don't display this issue. It's very unfortunate and unrealistic.

 

Friend, as you can see from all the responses here, including from Matt one of the developers who made the 747 and 787 flight management systems real, everyone is reporting No Issues.  You seem to be the one having issues and that’s ok, but to continue to declare the Asobo birds out of order makes you incorrect on that topic and gets you no closer to a solution for your issues.

-B

Flew 787 the other day 140kts give or take held F2 to deploy reversers they deployed. The only thing is it does not seem to do idle reverse. Can idle reverse in any other aircraft besides the 787 Matt do you have any insight on this?

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

Just to verify you mean just on your setup, correct?

Also, which other planes?

I installed MSFS2020 on the second computer, this time without using FSUIPC. Therefore, we have a situation where one computer has FSUIPC and the other does not. I can replicate the issue with reversers, on FENIX, MADDOG, PMDG, C208, A320,  A310 etc the reversers work ok, but not correctly on the 787 or 748. When using the F2 key, whether is with or without FSUIPC, when the key is pressed, it goes directly to the maximum value without allowing for any intermediary selection. To exit this state, you need to push the thrust levers forward, which is not realistic. The issue is related to ASOBO. 

 

@btacon

 

I want to clarify something that has been greatly misinterpreted.

First, there is no animosity or bad blood between Matt and me. It's simply a situation where I see some discrepancies with the 787 and 748, nothing more.

When you say that "everyone is reporting no issues," I strongly disagree with you. Remember, not everyone is typed, rated, or has flown the real airplane. Again, not to be misunderstood, what MATT and his team are doing is outstanding. However, let's not pretend that there are no problems, unless you are not familiar, and in that case, everything is fine.

Leaving aside the 787 and 748, if you can't see the issues related to the reverser function and F2 key, as well as certain ASOBO's issues, we can't entertain any discrepancies.

 

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by LRBS

2 hours ago, LRBS said:

Second, there seems to be another coding problem specific to the 787 and 748 airplanes, as other planes don't display this issue.

I am unable to reproduce this issue using the standard sim bindings, which is what we support. I don't know how other third party binding softwares emulate and/or hack around things like separate reverser axes.

59 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

The only thing is it does not seem to do idle reverse. Can idle reverse in any other aircraft besides the 787

Depending on how you're doing it, this might be a design choice. If you're using a single button/key for throttle decrease (gamepads using triggers, keyboards, etc), we noticed that taxiing around in other developers planes was extremely bothersome, as you would easily end up in reverse even though what you really wanted was to just go to idle and no further. So, for the throttle decrease event, we implemented an amount of time that you must hold down the event (2 seconds), to prevent accidental reverse engagement while taxiing. However, after the timeout, you get full reverse, because the assumption there is if someone is holding the control, the most likely situation is that they're trying to stop the plane after landing. This makes the experience with those control schemes much better.

You can get reverse idle by using TOGGLE REVERSE THRUST or HOLD TOGGLE REVERSE THRUST and then advancing the throttle a tiny bit, or by using the THROTTLE (0 to 100%) bindings, which will make the axis actually go from full reverse to full forward (dunno why they say 0 to 100%, it's really -100% to +100%). You can also do it in the cockpit via the mouse.

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by MattNischan

6 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

I am unable to reproduce this issue using the standard sim bindings, which is what we support. I don't know how other third party binding softwares emulate and/or hack around things like separate reverser axes.

Depending on how you're doing it, this might be a design choice. If you're using a single button/key for throttle decrease (gamepads using triggers, keyboards, etc), we noticed that taxiing around in other developers planes was extremely bothersome, as you would easily end up in reverse even though what you really wanted was to just go to idle and no further. So, for the throttle decrease event, we implemented an amount of time that you must hold down the event (2 seconds), to prevent accidental reverse engagement while taxiing. However, after the timeout, you get full reverse, because the assumption there is if someone is holding the control, the most likely situation is that they're trying to stop the plane after landing. This makes the experience with those control schemes much better.

You can get reverse idle by using TOGGLE REVERSE THRUST or HOLD TOGGLE REVERSE THRUST and then advancing the throttle a tiny bit, or by using the THROTTLE (0 to 100%) bindings, which will make the axis actually go from full reverse to full forward (dunno why they say 0 to 100%, it's really -100% to +100%).

Perfect thank you for the response.

To add onto what Matt said, there absolutely is a reverse axis and I have it bound through AAO to the bottom part of my throttle (past a detent). I had to define one part as regular throttle and the other as reverser axes.

Regardless, there's also a way to do it with button presses, but those button presses in MSFS generally don't result in smooth movement across an axis, but rather discrete steps. Often with the throttle, they correspond to aircraft detents. That seems logical for someone using a keyboard wanting to command MCT or Flex, etc. rather than having to hold a key for a perfect amount of time to get the desired detent. This is the way the Fenix A320 works.

Also as Matt says, you can use your regular throttle movement and simply bind a toggle to switch between regular and reverse thrust, and that's what I used to do until I decided to implement both on the same physical movement with a detent.

36 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

To add onto what Matt said, there absolutely is a reverse axis and I have it bound through AAO to the bottom part of my throttle (past a detent). I had to define one part as regular throttle and the other as reverser axes.

Regardless, there's also a way to do it with button presses, but those button presses in MSFS generally don't result in smooth movement across an axis, but rather discrete steps. Often with the throttle, they correspond to aircraft detents. That seems logical for someone using a keyboard wanting to command MCT or Flex, etc. rather than having to hold a key for a perfect amount of time to get the desired detent. This is the way the Fenix A320 works.

Also as Matt says, you can use your regular throttle movement and simply bind a toggle to switch between regular and reverse thrust, and that's what I used to do until I decided to implement both on the same physical movement with a detent.

I just connected my Throttletek throttle quadrant, which features independent reverse handles, and I would like to know where in the MSFS menu I can define these as reverser axes. Currently, they seem to be available only in FSUIPC or AAO, but not in the MSFS menu. Any guidance would be highly valued.

9 minutes ago, LRBS said:

I just connected my Throttletek throttle quadrant, which features independent reverse handles, and I would like to know where in the MSFS menu I can define these as reverser axes. Currently, they seem to be available only in FSUIPC or AAO, but not in the MSFS menu. Any guidance would be highly valued.

I'm afraid that I don't think there is a direct binding. Your best aporoach would be to use a toggle as Matt suggests to toggle between regular thrust and reverse thrust, and then use your throttle to increase the reverse thrust.

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

When you say that "everyone is reporting no issues," I strongly disagree with you. Remember, not everyone is typed, rated, or has flown the real airplane. Again, not to be misunderstood, what MATT and his team are doing is outstanding. However, let's not pretend that there are no problems, unless you are not familiar, and in that case, everything is fine.

Leaving aside the 787 and 748, if you can't see the issues related to the reverser function and F2 key, as well as certain ASOBO's issues, we can't entertain any discrepancies.

To answer your first statement that I didn’t quote, I and no one else here to my knowledge has stated or implied that your were disparaging or disrespectful to Matt.  If you’re feeling that way perhaps you should self reflect?  At to the quote above, while I’m not type rated in  either of these planes I am a licensed pilot, was an Air traffic Controller for about 15 years and I’ve been flying simulations for over forty years now.  I have just about every jetliner made for MSFS, MY reversers work as expected and are bound to my Velocity One Yoke and Throttle’s reverser axis, and so once again, in this case it seems to be you and not Asobo but if that deflection makes you feel better press on but you won’t get any closer to root cause I suspect.

Regardless, issues like this are extremely tough sometimes and you may be on the right track trying to solve it so good luck.  Sincerely,

-B

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by btacon

30 minutes ago, btacon said:

To answer your first statement that I didn’t quote, I and no one else here to my knowledge has stated or implied that your were disparaging or disrespectful to Matt.  If you’re feeling that way perhaps you should self reflect?  At to the quote above, while I’m not type rated in  either of these planes I am a licensed pilot, was an Air traffic Controller for about 15 years and I’ve been flying simulations for over forty years now.  I have just about every jetliner made for MSFS, MY reversers work as expected and are bound to my Velocity One Yoke and Throttle’s reverser axis, and so once again, in this case it seems to be you and not Asobo but if that deflection makes you feel better press on but you won’t get any closer to root cause I suspect.

Regardless, issues like this are extremely tough sometimes and you may be on the right track trying to solve it so good luck.  Sincerely,

-B

To conclude this, are you sure that is my issue with ASOBO that they don't have a correct binding for independent reverse handles? 

It's not about me; it's a fact, regardless of whether you see it or not. Moreover, there is nothing wrong with pointing out certain discrepancies; what is truly problematic is being unaware and becoming upset over criticism. 

11 minutes ago, LRBS said:

To conclude this, are you sure that is my issue with ASOBO that they don't have a correct binding for independent reverse handles? 

Of that I’m sure. Asobo does have the correct bindings because I use them and Thrust Reversers work as expected in all my planes.  As to bringing a software issue (or perceived issue) to light, no there is nothing wrong with surfacing them.  Where it breaks down is when your issue or perceived issue is explained and shown not to be an issue, to continue to suggest otherwise does not solve your issue and makes you appear a bit intransigent, at least to me, but that is only my take.

Peace and again, good luck.

-B

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

I would like to know where in the MSFS menu I can define these as reverser axes.

I don't think the sim has a specific axis dedicated to only the reverse range, as it's quite difficult to map conceptually. For example, what is the intended result if the forward axis and reverse axis are both set to 100%?

If I was writing an emulation of a reverser lever (this may be possible in AAO or Spad, I'm not sure), I would also suggest to use the combination of reverse toggle + normal axis for the reverser lever. The reverse toggle event is akin to saying "I've moved past the reverser lockout" and that setup makes the two operations mutually exclusive (forward and reverse thrust commands). I'm not familiar with the ThrottleTek, but many throttles with reverser levers have some sort of button they push when moving them past the lockout. If it has that button, you can bind that button itself to the toggle reverse event, and leave the reverser levers assigned to the regular throttle axis.

28 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

I don't think the sim has a specific axis dedicated to only the reverse range, as it's quite difficult to map conceptually. For example, what is the intended result if the forward axis and reverse axis are both set to 100%?

If I was writing an emulation of a reverser lever (this may be possible in AAO or Spad, I'm not sure), I would also suggest to use the combination of reverse toggle + normal axis for the reverser lever. The reverse toggle event is akin to saying "I've moved past the reverser lockout" and that setup makes the two operations mutually exclusive (forward and reverse thrust commands). I'm not familiar with the ThrottleTek, but many throttles with reverser levers have some sort of button they push when moving them past the lockout. If it has that button, you can bind that button itself to the toggle reverse event, and leave the reverser levers assigned to the regular throttle axis.

Matt,

 

Thank you for following. This Throttletek (https://throttletek.com/747-400-boeing-throttle/) is like any other throttle quadrant, with pots but no buttons to activate the reversers. I understand that some controllers only have buttons, which is one option, while others with reverse levers are left out and have no way to use them. I'm working on a hybrid setup between FSUIPC and the ASOBO throttle menus. I will get back to you on this, but the issue I see here is that people with this type of configuration might need to spend more money to bypass this issue. Some can afford it and some can't. 

Also, if you look back, even previous versions of Microsoft Flight Simulator, P3D, XP12, and DCS had a dedicated axis for reversers. I guess it's overlooked and has some undesirable consequences.