I came to XP11 initially when MSFS was having some rough sim updates that reported wrong altitude etc and I was too frustrated to fly. I then switched to XP12 immediately after release. I have since purchased a lot of aircraft for XP12. For the last year, most of my simming has been on XP12, though I am making my way back and forth with MSFS and XP now. 

 

Keep in mind... 15 mil users of MSFS right? Did you see the stats of how many customers on MP? 1 mil... That's 1/15th of all unique users. That means less than 7% of all unique MSFS users bought ANYTHING in their Marketplace. They said they were stoked about those numbers. As someone who runs a business, I am not sure that would be the way I would interpret it. You know what that means? Most of these users are probably super-casual and most likely are not even flying on MSFS anymore. You have to realize that X-Box Bobby Blow who flew over his house back in 2020 during COVID and then hit puberty is probably long-gone. So that's not that great of penetration as far as their Marketplace goes. The other stats? That "sweet spot" for addon pricing is $10-25. And that's their PC users! X-Box users prefer to stay in even less of a price bracket. 

This proves something we have known for a long time - the majority of users don't hang around AVSIM and MSFS forums. They are likely not even aware of their existence. They are VERY casual and don't spend much and aren't really dedicated simmers per se. 

So yes, MSFS HAS been beneficial for XP. And vice versa. These are both VERY good sims with drastically different strengths and weaknesses. The more they push each other, the better off the hobby is. MSFS has pushed Laminar to make things look better. Flight dynamics were already good, night lighting and default airports were already better... So MSFS had to implement WorldHub, which is Scenery Gateway. Then Laminar saw that Marketplace is not a bad idea if executed better, so now that's coming. Microsoft heard all about how the flight model and the actual fidelity was a bit of a joke early on and so they worked on improving fidelity of default aircraft and continue to work on physics so that it flies better than it does now. They push each other to improve and I think it's a VERY good thing. That's how we get better in anything we do, in general. 

4 hours ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

That means less than 7% of all unique MSFS users bought ANYTHING in their Marketplace.

I have purchased a lot more from external stores than from the marketplace. that 7% number is Marketplace only. you ignore that many users prefer to purchase directly from the respective developers outside Marketplace for various reasons. and those numbers are not included here.

plus: since MSFS includes so much more out of the box (high-end avionics,  airplanes, world wide scenery, free default airports etc,) many users feel no need for additional addon purchases except perhaps for a few of their favorite airplanes/airports, besides thousands of freeware addons from flightsim.to

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by turbomax

1 hour ago, turbomax said:

I have purchased a lot more from external stores than from the marketplace. that 7% number is Marketplace only. you ignore that many users prefer to purchase directly from the respective developers outside Marketplace for various reasons. and those numbers are not included here.

plus: since MSFS includes so much more out of the box (high-end avionics,  airplanes, world wide scenery, free default airports etc,) many users feel no need for additional addon purchases except perhaps for a few of their favorite airplanes/airports, besides thousands of freeware addons from flightsim.to

Right. This was about the MS Marketplace. I am one of those users who try to never purchase on there because their implementation of it has been horrible. As convenient as the idea is, the fact that the updates take forever makes it a completely undesirable option for me. 

16 hours ago, turbomax said:

with over 15 million users of MSFS, how many million roughly have changed to xplane because they are "unsatisfied"? 

mind to support your claim "as seen many times"" with facts or is this just an opinion with no proof nor foundation whatsoever.

even if only 10% were "unsatisfied", this would still leave 1.5 million desperate MSFS-to-Xplane converts for Laminar. 🤣

You are not the brightest aren‘t you…i never said millions had changed. I was just mentionning people who changed to XP. I don‘t do statistics about every such comment I read in forums or live-streams. But I have seen that again and again. So yes quite a lot for a sim that is supposed to be „so much above everything else“.

So, your point is what exactly now???
 

Btw from these supposedly 15 mio of users, how many are still active? 10%? Like myself many got hyped but have abandoned it long ago. Steams (even if not representative) shows a few thousands users a day. That is extremely low for a game having 15 mio users.

11 hours ago, turbomax said:

plus: since MSFS includes so much more out of the box (high-end avionics,  airplanes, world wide scenery, free default airports etc,) many users feel no need for additional addon purchases except perhaps for a few of their favorite airplanes/airports, besides thousands of freeware addons from flightsim.to

That is simply BS. It may be true for a casual-gamer who likes to play on multiplayer, land his 747 in Lukla and crash into the other kiddies or play built-in races. In many other aspects it lacks behind what XP offers: dynamic weather impacting the performance, seasons, precipitation building up/melting, brake-coefficient of RWY‘s according to the contamination, better default airports, better night lighting, density true-alt, flight model, ground behaviour, inertia, replay, default camera-views such as tower-view or fly-bye, better popout-screens, more default failures, built-in weather map, no mandatory updates, no app like XBox (having its own issues) needed to start the sim and some more.

Just watch a stream of XP. You will notice how many users will say „i wish we had that in MSFS“. On the other side the almost only thing XP-watchers wish from MSFS is the default scenery. No one cares about better default avionics when most of the users use payware-aircrafts anyway.

The last two posts by @Franz007 have been approved but I would urge him to ease off with the aggressive tone. You can make your point without resorting to accusing others of talking rubbish or lack of intelligence. You can expect many to disagree with you.

38 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

[rant snipped]

No one cares about better default avionics when most of the users use payware-aircrafts anyway.

I do. I truly wish that the G1000 in XP was as up to date and functional as what Working Title has put together for MSFS. That would make me a very happy XP user indeed. That's why I was thrilled to read about the improvements that Laminar is making to their default avionics and also why I've been eagerly awaiting the release of the XP version of the DA-42 that COWS is developing.

1 hour ago, Malaromane said:

I've been eagerly awaiting the release of the XP version of the DA-42 that COWS is developing.

That will be a payware. A payware can simulate everything, just look at the CL650. Exactly what I said; default aircrafts are not really important for most of the users.

17 hours ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

You have to realize that X-Box Bobby Blow who flew over his house back in 2020 during COVID and then hit puberty is probably long-gone. So that's not that great of penetration as far as their Marketplace goes.

Another silly comment about xbox again. Trying to associate xbox to puberty and immature kids, as if only children use consoles. In fact, that argument would hold a little bit more weight if you were discussing Nintendo as that is more a family-oriented console. The series X runs MSFS at 4k 30 fps, most simmers can't even hit that on a PC without breaking the bank.  I never understood why user in the flight community try to associate xbox with kids. Even though, I have a 4090, I also continue to sim on Xbox using a mouse\keyboard and a Thrustmaster yoke/rudder. A majority, of people that flies on the xbox choose to do so because it is convenient, and it has a low entry point of only $300 USD.  Not everyone may be as fortunate as you with a good computer to run a flight sim.

17 hours ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

That "sweet spot" for addon pricing is $10-25. And that's their PC users! X-Box users prefer to stay in even less of a price bracket. 

There is no difference between buying on Xbox and buying on pc. When I buy on Xbox, it is automatically available on my PC and vice versa. If you think about the sweet spot though, it makes perfect sense. It is a shock to many new simmers when they find that the base game is free or cost $60 but a single plane can cost $50, $60, $70. In other genres like racing simulation, $30 gets you a collection of several cars. I fall into that sweet spot also. I'm more likely to impulse buy something in that 10-25 range. I will not buy anything over $50 bucks without giving it some serious thought and also looking at a lot of reviews. There are times when I'll just randomly buy 3 or 4 addons in the marketplace though because they are under 20$ and I felt like it that day.

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by brinx

While I'm very pleased by all the improvements they have announced in the FSExpo, I'm a bit disappointed they had nothing to show... I was especially interested in the new stuff they try to implement regarding sceneries, and their "Streaming friendly" line surely caught my eye, but man, give us a bit more to see, it's FSExpo, not a newsleter by email...

I mean, don't get me wrong, that presentation was full of good news for sure....

1 hour ago, Daube said:

While I'm very pleased by all the improvements they have announced in the FSExpo, I'm a bit disappointed they had nothing to show... I was especially interested in the new stuff they try to implement regarding sceneries, and their "Streaming friendly" line surely caught my eye, but man, give us a bit more to see, it's FSExpo, not a newsleter by email...

I mean, don't get me wrong, that presentation was full of good news for sure....

There are quite a few things they chose not to show. For their own reasons, which could be several. Austin and Ben are very particular about what they make public. Even for an expo. 

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I would urge him to ease off with the aggressive tone

and another one bites the dust -> ignore list.

The default avionics matter a lot.

I've come to actually really like the G430 (the G530 and G1000 are ok, too) but it took me a while to like it and get over the initial aversion.

But something with touch screens would be great (RealityXP does not support Linux/Mac).

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by flightwusel

7 hours ago, brinx said:

There is no difference between buying on Xbox and buying on pc.

Some third party aircraft will only be compatible with the PC version of MSFS.

FS Labs Concorde being one example.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Some third party aircraft will only be compatible with the PC version of MSFS.

FS Labs Concorde being one example.

As far as I know FS Labs' Concorde hasn't been released yet for MSFS. I didn't hear any news about which platforms will or will not be supported. Even within P3D they are not supporting V6 yet.

However, I was referring to addons sold in the marketplace. There is no difference between a PC purchase and a xbox purchase because the sale is linked to your Microsoft account. You'll be able to use the addon on either the xbox or pc with a single purchase.

The one caveat is steam, which is a 3rd party store. If you purchase via steam, it will be linked to your steam account only. I think the Laminar store will work in a similar fashion.

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by brinx