23 minutes ago, ATRguy said:

 But don’t be upset when the market moves on.  

Definitvly not. But I demand respect from the vendors and it is my decision change, upgrade to buy new versions. Does your Car-Producer urge you to buy immediately a new car when one is out...

In Flightsimulation business the vendors have to learn a lot about customer care and support. Everyone can write it's own book about this topic. On the other hand customers have to learn, too. Probably to pay for updates.It's a question of fairness on both sides. PMDG for sure doesn't have this on their agenda. They wil learn. Market is not everything....

 

1 hour ago, bravolima said:

PMDG for sure doesn't have this on their agenda. They wil learn

Well…I’ve been buying airplanes from PMDG for at least two decades.  Love em or hate, they’ve pretty much have a solid understanding of how this game works.

-B

7 hours ago, ATRguy said:

@sloppysmusic,

PMDG has said they sold more DC-6s for MSFS in the first week or whatever than they had for every other sim combined.  
 

PMDG probably sold more 777s in the first week than they had in every other sim combined.  
 

Same with the 737.  And probably how it will be for the 747.  The user base DWARFS everything else, combined.  
 

You should take MSFS seriously because you can do the sightseeing and have just as high fidelity of an experience as you can with any other sim with PMDG, Fenix, JF….  

MSFS is not a serious flight simulator.  The visuals are amazing yes, but that's about all it has to offer.  MSFS has a lot of problems that make the experience sub par in many ways compared to P3D and even FSX.  MSFS is all fluff and nothing more, it is an arcade game masked as a flight simulator.  Even though I made the mistake of buying it, I never use it, in fact I don't even have it installed any more.

I will never buy an MSFS aircraft, doesn't matter to me if it's made by PMDG or any other developer.

This topic is drifting towards a “my sim is better than your sim” argument. No more comparisons please. We all know the pros and cons of different sims so there’s no need to repeat them here.

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

This topic is drifting towards a “my sim is better than your sim” argument. No more comparisons please. We all know the pros and cons of different sims so there’s no need to repeat them here.

This is true Ray but I can understand why it is happening here and now. I don't even own P3D, though was planning to one day. I can therefore be pretty neutral here. Your question to PMDG was quickly and expectedly closed down without an answer because PMDG "have no open obligations to customers". At least they (him!) are being open about their thoughts about prospective customers. 

This IS the P3d forum after all and where its fans gather to talk and share about their sim. If an MSFS user comes into the forum and bluntly infers simmers here are using an inferior, obsolete sim it is completely natural and fair for 'locals' to defend their sim by the only way possible: comparing the sims and pointing out individual strengths and weaknesses. Very valuable info for people browsing the forums looking to make an informed decision on which sim to buy. Yes there IS a choice!

It is of course not possible to say one sim is best at something without at the same time knocking the other. Such is praise and criticism!

At least our mutual buddy at PMDG did not state for the record they were done with P3D. That has to be a positive. When they've done that before it tends to stay permanent.

On a different but maybe very similar story.....

My elderly parents own a 10yo TomTom sat nav for basically getting them to and from hospital visits. Yesterday Mom got an email from TomTom that upset her:

The gist of this stunning (to me) info email was that they were introducing new firmware/nav updates for all their devices. My parents satnav is NOT COMPATIBLE with this update and THEREFORE their only option is to buy new hardware. There follows a shopping cart link where my parents could get 'help' choosing a new sat nav. My Dad got worried by the wording that they were somehow maybe breaking some law or regulation by continuing to use their discontinued device. I reassured them it was just cynical modern pressure marketing. Despicable but ever present. This email presents a new low though.

If it ain't broke don't fix it....OR replace it!

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

If an MSFS user comes into the forum and bluntly infers simmers here are using an inferior, obsolete sim it is completely natural and fair for 'locals' to defend their sim by the only way possible: comparing the sims and pointing out individual strengths and weaknesses. Very valuable info for people browsing the forums looking to make an informed decision on which sim to buy. Yes there IS a choice!

Believe me that has happened on numerous occasions. I’ve never known such hostility to another sim as has happened in the last 4 years. Those posts are soon closed down and in some circumstances the offender given a holiday.

That’s why I didn’t want this one to go down that path. I know you meant no harm and to an extent comparisons are okay up to a point. Factual differences cannot be argued with. Subjective ones are just that and we all have our likes / dislikes. There are plenty who get frustrated with MSFS. That’s in part caused by it being a streaming service. But you pays your money and takes your choice.

I was wondering how long it might be before our friend over at PMDG decides to announce something. It’s taking them a long time to decide on what isn’t a difficult choice.

My sympathies with your parents. My own built-in Honda satnav cannot be updated beyond 2018 so I just trust any new locations I visit don’t have new roads! 😁

37 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’ve never known such hostility to another sim as has happened in the last 4 years.

I didn't know it was that bad! It's a hill worth defending IMO for sure. I'm long enough in the tooth to remember 4/5 years back so this situation is highly ironic. As an FSX holdout (I'm an IT guy so I got it working great and was happy to stick with it) I recall the heated discussions going in the OTHER direction back then!

Being impartial it's still the same point. I defended FSX from being called wna back then and I would do the same for P3d now. Would be hypocritical of me to not defend a similar situation! :D

My situation is by itself an argument for P3D. I bested FSX and loved it. Got ill had to move countries had leave everything behind. Years later while recovering buy new PC but can't deal with stress of setting up FSX all over again so go the MSFS route, skipping P3d for well obvious reasons with a new system and wanting the most simple install possible. Got MSFS tweaked got my addons except...well only ONE A2A plane...only ONE PMDG plane. Then PMDG say with 2nd plane they say removing their long term right mouse button support which is my entire physical problem right now! Felt like a kick in the wnas. (Yes, I was thread closed asking that question too). So skipped to Just Flight planes. Brilliant detail except....a GPS shoe horned in meant they had to compromise the VOR system (which is what I wanted to use). It's well NOT Cat II rated in the sim version for sure.

Sooo...I deep breathe and install FSX again, taking it SLOW to do one thing at a time. One month after realising W11 hidden power plan settings were crashing FSX every minute I deep dove those and made my own complex FSX W11 power plan. 60fps locked no crashes! BTW that power plan is now my goto plan for all windows activities. My i9-14900 has not crashed since!

Install all those wonderful A2A and PMDG planes. Highlights being T6, P51Civ and Connie from A2A and the amazing QOTS2/MD-11 from PMDG.

They work great. Except,,,now having got FSX running so well I naturally think hmmm how will P3D run now? I can keep my FSX planes and add my faves to that too. It's only 60 bucks come on! 

Which brings me to this thread....I'd get P3d just for the 747 series. I'd buy again they are that good. I hope I soon can! Fingers crossed y'all :D

 

EDIT:

Forgot to mention another major reason for me to get P3d is that I own all the OrbX scenery for FSX. Yes ALL of it (airports too), well except Africa LC that was recent and one new Swiss airport backported from MSFS :D. I heard my licence allows P3d install, so that $10k+ investment won't go to waste after all!

Edited August 6, 20241 yr by sloppysmusic
ahh orbx

1 hour ago, sloppysmusic said:

$10k+ investment

Wow!!!!

@sloppysmusic, there’s one enormous elephant in the room with FSX. It’s 32-bit so you’re restricted to 4Gb VAS. It was a constant battle between available memory and scenery complexity.

P3Dv4 ended that issue but v5 redefined all the world coastlines, rivers etc. v6 improved atmospherics but lost third party support. So v5 should be seriously considered. Most of your FSX scenery will still work and should you desire the need for speed the FS Labs Concorde is superbly modelled.

12 hours ago, Zylx said:

MSFS is not a serious flight simulator.  The visuals are amazing yes, but that's about all it has to offer.  MSFS has a lot of problems that make the experience sub par in many ways compared to P3D and even FSX.  MSFS is all fluff and nothing more, it is an arcade game masked as a flight simulator.  Even though I made the mistake of buying it, I never use it, in fact I don't even have it installed any more.

I will never buy an MSFS aircraft, doesn't matter to me if it's made by PMDG or any other developer.

Listen, I know we're not here for sim wars, I totally agree with Ray here. I do understand this is the P3D forum and I do understand we're all entitled to our subjective opinions but come on... Why comments like these? Not a serious simulator? Only visuals? All fluff? Arcade game? As a P3D fan from version 2 onwards (I was late to the party) I can only say your comments sound like a load of horseword not allowed. The MS sim deserves a lot more credit than this, just look at the state of the default avionics (which are kind of great compared to the P3D default ones) for example. And there's a lot more. Oh and guess what. There's even a third contender! Ever heard of them? This sim has a lot to offer as well and is better than P3D and MSFS in certain areas.

No matter what; be happy with what you fly, but please keep an honest perspective about the competition.

 

 

Edited August 6, 20241 yr by Rimshot
spelling

10 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

This topic is drifting towards a “my sim is better than your sim” argument. No more comparisons please. We all know the pros and cons of different sims so there’s no need to repeat them here.

Yes my comment was a bit off topic and I apologize.  I was not trying to do the whole "my sim is better" thing, I was just pointing out that MSFS has many issues that were never resolved and that it's a simulator geared towards casual flight simmers that don't care about things like accurate flight modelling and stuff.

A sim-cade will always make more money for the developers (both sim developers and addon developers) than a sim like P3D because it attracts a much wider audience.  I've tried all sims since FSX and my comments were based on my own experience with MSFS and comparing it to all the others.  It's merely my observations.

Now that PMDG is making money hand over fist on their MSFS products, they've abandoned us P3D users, discarded us like yesterdays trash and it's just heartbreaking to see it happen after all the years we supported them and made them what they are.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s 32-bit so you’re restricted to 4Gb VAS

LOL you are preaching to the choir master sir! I use SCE and have multiple regions set up and used to juggling these and LOD radius before simming. I mean P3ds whole raison d'etre WAS the 64bit upgrade. I've done a LOT of lurking in these forums over the years, it's almost been a game of patience. I promised myself WHEN I mastered W11 and FSX then I would use same W11 power plan settings for P3d and I will be FLYYYYYYYing.... :D

Now I've got a new system and got my mental game back by fine tuning MSFS & FSX to both work well enough to capture video AND run at 4k maxed I think it's time I rewarded myself with the missing piece of the jigsaw.

Which version though? I was going to start a new thread for people migrating  (cough, cough!) from 'other' sims like me but if OrbX works in 5 but not 6 that's my choice. If it is POSSIBLE to get it to work that sounds like a challenge :D

I think I need that new thread so we can get away from this slightly damaged one and state my addons and requirements. Oh and I need to share that custom power plan when I can figure how to do it without lots of screenshots or typing.

1 hour ago, Patco Lch said:

Wow!!!!

I'm a sale junkie. I basically got 1 or 200 bucks worth at a time on sale. Then it got to the point that I got ALL items on sale when they were reduced. LOWI came last as it was NEVER on sale! Absolute heaven in FSX for me a few years back flying around all the tiny strips in the T6 or P51. I even did a few video series!

Here's some random ones. Much experimenting! I'll start that thread later unless it's a big vote for either 5 or 6?

I absolutely must NOT see any logos on screen lol! As another thread will testify too! 

 

I’ve hidden the last two posts as they’re off topic. Any future ones will also be hidden unless they explicitly mention PMDG.

@sloppysmusic, definitely start a new topic as nothing you’ve mentioned refers to PMDG. 👍

It seemed a fair discussion, all related to the popularity of P3D, which seems a reason for PMDG to make the decisions they have. I'm still disappointed we're not allowed to have firm discussions about the qualities of each sim; although I do understand we can get a little childish about it, including me... Other than that, I'm done here and will move to that other part of the forum. Not that anyone cares, but I thought I'd let you know just in case 😁 I'll be back when LM will release the best sim ever.

Edited August 6, 20241 yr by Rimshot

19 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

definitely start a new topic as nothing you’ve mentioned refers to PMDG

Will do...EXCEPT that my reason for considering P3D NOW is right at the time the PMDG ac are not for sale. If they don't come back it changes my decision. The new thread will have the list of ac including PMDG addons I will need to work to move to P3d!

EDIT: The entire reason I'm IN this thread is specifically to find out if I can use PMDG in P3d as it's vital to my purchase. I just didn't mention PMDG in ONE post lol

Edited August 6, 20241 yr by sloppysmusic