4 hours ago, Tierborn said:

That means you do not care for any more modern aircraft Boeing or Airbus.

I'm excited and looking forward to the A350 and A380 though....just don't care for 757-787s.

19 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Let me reiterate: this question is all about the fidelity of the addon, and nothing about the IRL differences between the jets.

I.e., I don't care about range / long haul, pax count, IRL operators, Big Iron/Heavy Jet, etc., etc.

I have their 737 and am quite satisfied with it, but in terms of a heavy jet, their 747 is what I'm looking for. HOWEVER, If the 777 is big step forward in general airliner operations, my mind is open.

Did PMDG substantially raise the bar with their 777, and if so, how...? Like, is it worth the extra coin if I already have the 737, or is it just a bigger Boeing?

 

Another thread started that will receive a ton of responses with no right answer to your question. Purchase them both they are good and then make your own decision! That simple.

3 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Well, actually PMDG already DID with the 737 release for MSFS. They have used this exact setup for almost 2 decades. When they released the 737 it includes a pdf tutorial on how to use CLASSIC PMDG mouse behaviour that us loyal customers have used for a decade in previous sims. So all they had to do was include the same tiny xml modification to allow the 777 to work the same IF customers wanted to. They REMOVED it as a POLICY decision, not practical or cost decision. To cater for the mass market they now seem focused on they dropped the customization and individuality they were famous for.

There was a polite discussion I was involved in on the PMDG forums about this, but as soon as several people dropped in to say they would also like the option retained a 'mod' told us it was their way or the highway (my words their meaning) and immediately closed the thread without even answering the question as to whether if could be modded by a user after purchase. 

 

This issue has been ongoing for years. Unfortunately, the product's quality deteriorated and it seemed like a money-making situation rather than maintaining its previous good quality.

 

For years, individuals such as RSR, DDowns, Krodgers, and more recently Emi, Mathijs, and others have been quick to dismiss any bugs and confront customers, leading to closing threads or denying access to forums or questioning anything.

 

I recall instances where we provided documentation to address specific issues, only to have them flatly refuse to acknowledge it. They even engaged in arguments with us, real pilots qualified on specific equipment, claiming that their own personnel possessed “extensive” knowledge.

 

Their business practices and negative treatment of customers, compared to other developers, will inevitably have repercussions for them.

 

2 hours ago, tpete61 said:

Another thread started that will receive a ton of responses with no right answer to your question. Purchase them both they are good and then make your own decision! That simple.

Sorry, you're incorrect.

A. If you had bothered to actually read the question, you'd see that I already have their 737.

B. Most of the feedback has been rather consistent that, just like IRL, the addons are at a fairly even level of functionality and, as addons, operate quite consistently.

C. I have a large collection of addons already and I'm at the point where, though I have plenty of funds to support my "habit", I don't feel inclined to spend it unless a particular addon provides a measurable level of improvement or differential over the others.

And based on what I've gleaned from reviews and the good folks here, that unless I'm looking for a long-haul widebody or just a small set of functional improvements over the 737, the 777 probably isn't worth the extra coin for my particular desires.

 

22 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Let me reiterate: this question is all about the fidelity of the addon, and nothing about the IRL differences between the jets.

I.e., I don't care about range / long haul, pax count, IRL operators, Big Iron/Heavy Jet, etc., etc.

I have their 737 and am quite satisfied with it, but in terms of a heavy jet, their 747 is what I'm looking for. HOWEVER, If the 777 is big step forward in general airliner operations, my mind is open.

Did PMDG substantially raise the bar with their 777, and if so, how...? Like, is it worth the extra coin if I already have the 737, or is it just a bigger Boeing?

 

Get the TDFI MD11 if you want something different. It was just released and is beautiful. I purchased the PMDG777 and TDFI MD11. I've made two flight in the 777 and 4 in the MD11. I love it

3 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

I purchased the PMDG777 and TDFI MD11.

A man of the culture I see!

I'll eventually do the same!🍻

5 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

Get the TDFI MD11 if you want something different. It was just released and is beautiful. I purchased the PMDG777 and TDFI MD11. I've made two flight in the 777 and 4 in the MD11. I love it

Hmm interesting, must admit I am tempted by the Cargo version, although will definitely get the 777F...

 

G

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Their business practices and negative treatment of customers, compared to other developers, will inevitably have repercussions for them.

It absolutely crushed their 777 sales huh....   As they grow exponentially in sales volume you let me know when the "inevitable" happens...  

 

To the OP, the 777 is more refined.  It is also far more automated.  There are a lot of features on the 777 not yet implemented on the 737 that I am sure will be back ported.  
I guess for me the biggest indicator is I haven't done a 737 flight since the 777 arrived.  One thing I love is the huge 777 windscreens giving me a great view I didn't have in the 737... 

MD-11 is also an incredibly automated and phenomenal aircraft, high landing speeds make approaches more interesting but for example if you are familiar with the 737 FMC the 777 is almost identical although the data uploads are more substantial and automatic... 

It is a good chunk of change but well worth it just in my opinion... 

Edited July 6, 20241 yr by psolk

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Sorry, you're incorrect.

A. If you had bothered to actually read the question, you'd see that I already have their 737.

B. Most of the feedback has been rather consistent that, just like IRL, the addons are at a fairly even level of functionality and, as addons, operate quite consistently.

C. I have a large collection of addons already and I'm at the point where, though I have plenty of funds to support my "habit", I don't feel inclined to spend it unless a particular addon provides a measurable level of improvement or differential over the others.

And based on what I've gleaned from reviews and the good folks here, that unless I'm looking for a long-haul widebody or just a small set of functional improvements over the 737, the 777 probably isn't worth the extra coin for my particular desires.

Wait for the cheap option like I am.

1 hour ago, psolk said:

It absolutely crushed their 777 sales huh....   As they grow exponentially in sales volume you let me know when the "inevitable" happens...  

 

I understand that your top concern is their sales. However, many of us prioritize purchasing a high-quality product over one that is rushed to market with numerous bugs, as is or was previously the case. It's important to always keep in mind that impressive sales growth doesn't necessarily mean the product has superior quality or exceptional customer service. We should consider a product's overall performance and customer experience when determining its value.

24 minutes ago, LRBS said:

I understand that your top concern is their sales. However, many of us prioritize purchasing a high-quality product over one that is rushed to market with numerous bugs, as is or was previously the case. It's important to always keep in mind that impressive sales growth doesn't necessarily mean the product has superior quality or exceptional customer service. We should consider a product's overall performance and customer experience when determining its value.

No, my top concern is being happy with my purchase and I am incredibly so... Don't put words in my mouth.  You said their practices would inevitably have repercussions, I merely pointed out that didn't actually play out in reality where their sales grew exponentially.  

I also came to answer the OP's question which I did, can't say the same for you although you did call a bunch of people out by name in a thread designed to compare two airplanes and somehow it always becomes personal which I find completely unnecessary, hence my participation here has run its course.   

Edited July 6, 20241 yr by psolk

To answer, I believe so. The T7 finally seems to have come with a more compliant LNAV that strings legs properly where they exist within actual Navdata and not forming it's own. There's nice things like the tire and break degradation. It's a nice welcome to see the weather radar (To those who say it's useless due to a certain poorly researched video, watch Matt's video showing the radar in-depth.) There's also improve wing flex, visible engine vibrations as-well as for the tail (though idk if this was on the 737).

Though on the otherhand, there's still annoying things like the plethora of configuration options done in the FMC, a UX nightmare personally. There's also the contentious sounds but generally the mixing isn't great and they could've used better use of 3D locational audio.

Is it superior you ask? Personally, it's subjective but overrall yes the T7 has shown some useful additions that aren't apparent in the 737. Though in some places not so much.

Though in short both planes are pretty good as they are, there's just a few niggles that PMDG could address but I don't see them entirely as deal breakers. The LNAV problem was big for me, I'll await it being retroactively added to the 737 lineup.

1 minute ago, Lucky38i said:

To answer, I believe so. The T7 finally seems to have come with a more compliant LNAV that strings legs properly where they exist within actual Navdata and not forming it's own. There's nice things like the tire and break degradation. It's a nice welcome to see the weather radar (To those who say it's useless due to a certain poorly researched video, watch Matt's video showing the radar in-depth.) There's also improve wing flex, visible engine vibrations as-well as for the tail (though idk if this was on the 737).

Though on the otherhand, there's still annoying things like the plethora of configuration options done in the FMC, a UX nightmare personally. There's also the contentious sounds but generally the mixing isn't great and they could've used better use of 3D locational audio.

Is it superior you ask? Personally, it's subjective but overrall yes the T7 has shown some useful additions that aren't apparent in the 737. Though in some places not so much.

Though in short both planes are pretty good as they are, there's just a few niggles that PMDG could address but I don't see them entirely as deal breakers. The LNAV problem was big for me, I'll await it being retroactively added to the 737 lineup.

Great perspective. Many thanks!

35 minutes ago, psolk said:

No, my top concern is being happy with my purchase and I am incredibly so... Don't put words in my mouth.  You said their practices would inevitably have repercussions, I merely pointed out that didn't actually play out in reality where their sales grew exponentially.  

I also came to answer the OP's question which I did, can't say the same for you although you did call a bunch of people out by name in a thread designed to compare two airplanes and somehow it always becomes personal which I find completely unnecessary, hence my participation here has run its course.   

This is a prime example of drawing inaccurate conclusions. I did not attribute words to you; rather, I responded to your statement. Additionally, I addressed the original poster's message, in case you overlooked it. Identifying individuals by name due to unprofessional treatment of customers and attempts to conceal product flaws is not a personal matter, unless one is averse to facing realities.

Have a better day! 

 

11 hours ago, psolk said:

There are a lot of features on the 777 not yet implemented on the 737 that I am sure will be back ported

I believe it when I see it. They said that it is planned but not in the foreseeable future as their focus right now is on other products. It would not be the first time that PMDG changed direction. Porting features over to the 737 might not be as easy as simply copying the code over and I can’t believe that PMDG will invest heavilly into another developpment cycle for the 737. That will not make them any money. Most likely they will have to make the 737 compatible with 2024 anyway somewhere down the road and we will have to pay an upgrade price to get the 2024 version’s 737s including the promised backported 777 features. But knowing PMDG’s track record that is probably not going to happen anytime soon. After all it took them more than a year to developp a simple three page tablet. 

Edited July 7, 20241 yr by petz_e