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Guest Jimbofly

Another example of why flightsim is headed downhill

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>>Stoopy said...>$44.44 fair? Sure, why not, since it's all subjective>anyway, yeah? I think the busy always-on-the-go>starbucks-drinking executive who loves to flight sim for an>hour on evenings when not making deals and settling mergers,>and doesn't have the time to download and learn a scenery>tool, would go for it right quick. Specially if he lives in>that neck of he woods. >>What part of the old maxim "a good deal is just a state of>mind" is so difficult to understand?>But that's just it, it's not a good deal when compared to other quality addons from companies like Aerosoft, FlyTampa, FSdreamteam and Megascenery. The end price is more than the price of most of these companies addons and they are the definition of quality.

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>It's a crap product that someone is charging for so I called>it out as you said. How do you know it's crap when you don't have it and, as far as I'm aware, you don't know anybody who does?

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Simple solution, don't but it then.I can't see why anyone would buy a 747 (or whatever) for $50-70 either....cause...well...only like prop stuff mostly, and an airplane without a prop seems like a rip off to me....and stoopy...I like your style ;)

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>Which part of vote with your wallets did you not get? As for>hidden agendas? I have none, I just don't like the way this>hobby is going, nothing further.:-( So much angst over an addon. Wow. I'd bet most people do vote with their wallets by default so I don't really see the need to remind them to do so myself. I don't see a problem with someone wanting to charge for their work either, it probably took him quite awhile to make. Whether it meets your particular expectations of what payware scenery should be is your call, but others might like it.Airliners don't meet my personal addon standards, payware or otherwise, simply because they're... well, airliners, hehe. I won't buy any of them but that doesn't mean they're rubbish.Not sure what to make of that term "Freeware Quality" either. Fine, most freeware addons may not be able to stand toe to toe with a payware one aesthetically, but in my eyes every single freeware upload in the entire Avsim library represents an act of kindness and generosity, and that's pretty special I think. I certainly never feel 'entitled' to the free time and hard work of others, deep pockets or not. Each one is a gift.

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>>But that's just it, it's not a good deal when compared to>other quality addons from companies like Aerosoft, FlyTampa,>FSdreamteam and Megascenery. The end price is more than the>price of most of these companies addons and they are the>definition of quality.>OK granted, this person isn't going for the volume business and trying to push as many units out the door as possible like Crazy Stoopy's House of El Cheapo Kustom Kolors* but I haven't seen his business plan and neither, I suspect, have you. If you wanted to play the good samaritan you could act as a business consultant for him, maybe, and help him strategize and optimize somewhat. Free country and all. Until then, if the price is too high and the quality is too low, his customers, and/or lack of them, will let him know soon enough. But the thing is, voting with your wallet is just that - your wallet, not anyone else's....and I'd bet some of the FBO's and flight students might also use FS and who also may not be as creatively adept as you or others, would like to have that scenery just because they think it's special and all, and $11 as opposed to sitting down and figuring out how to do it themselves for the first time ever, is a bargain considering what some of their time is worth. It's all like, totally relative, youknow? (and bkeske...ROFL.....I'm with ya on the prop costs, heck we don't even get a refund for the pistons that they don't put in! :) )* A division of Totally Wicked Tax-Write-Off FlightSimmin' Hardware Upgrades, Inc.

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And a very nice free AI package ... hosted right here on AVSIM:http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID...aia&DLID=112838And everyone would like a nice free Piaggo for Christmas!:http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxac&DLID=98239Not your style? How bout a nice Airbus:http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxac&DLID=99100Not enough weaponry? How bout a nice Eurofighter:http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxac&DLID=92331There are, quite frankly, plenty of free addons available. Lots of good payware too.And there should be plenty of room in this "hobby" for both. In fact, the hobby probably couldn't survive if some enthusiasts can't make a buck off their work.I used to develop both freeware - and payware - missions. I put months of effort into some of them.Virtually nobody supported the payware missions, but lots of people downloaded and enjoyed the freeware missions ... thousands of them, in fact.Result: I no longer make ANY missions.Sad ... I know ... but frankly, the effort wasn't supported by the community.So, there needs to be a mix ... and there should be an incentive for someone who puts in hours and hours and hours of work for your enjoyment.By the way ... I can't find the freeware you've developed to give back to the community. Can you point me to what you've developed and given away for free. I'd like to take a look at your work.Cheers,Kevin

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Deep pockets?Last I checked $11.11 wasn't a great deal of money.Someone puts their time and effort into producing something for the enjoyment of others and decides to charge a minuscule amount for it, and you have a go at that developer and complain that FS is doomed?Take your tightarsed whinging elsewhere - posts like these are the reasons FS is going downhill.

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1 volume with 15 airfields for $11? So, you'd expect 4 volumes x 15 ~ 60 airfields for $45?It is not a good coverage of Florida GA airports.I've done GA airports for FS9, just for the area covered by Now Orleans aeronautical chart including most LA airports + some in MS, AL, FL panhandle, and I had total > 80 airfields (you can find it here http://library.avsim.net/search.php?Search...=root&Go=Search , or on AFCADwarehouse.net). It took me awhile to complete, and I fiddled with AFCAds only (well except for a few airfields where I actually made some scenery). What I'm saying is, Florida has a LOT of GA fields (i.e., have a look at Airnav.com or charts). It is challenging to make a complete Florida GA package, especially if you also do the scenery. But at the end, author decides whether to publish it for free or as payware, and the user decides if it's worth it. From the GA AI point of view, when you care only about AFCADs, AI models and schedules, I'd say $40-50 is a good price for the whole US coverage. However, I'll be happier if the organized freeware efforts like UltimateGA.com and AFCADwarehouse.net will bring some FSX products too.Cheers,=S.V.=eMachines T5026/P4/3.07GHz/1Gb RAM/160Gb S-ATA HDD/Windows XP Home SP2/ATI RADEON 9250 PCI 256Mb/ViewSonic VX910 19' 1280x1024/Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback 2

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I don't think this looks too bad. Just take a look on simmarket; theres some real special titles for sale way way worst than this.P.s Could someone please post a shot of Vero Beach from this Pack?

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True. No need for us to encourage it though. You know better than most what a quality Freeware is. I still can't believe Boston was free. ;)

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I don't think it is fair to hold out "Boston" as the standard. I don't think too many people could do that even if they wanted too. I would place Holger and Jon's BC stuff in there too -- I think Victoria+ so far is the only "must have" FSX scenery. There is nice scenery called UtahComplete_v1_0 which might be comparable to this Central Fla offering. Now that we have ADE V1 out, hopefully we will have some more "AFCAD" style airport mods. Take a look at Jim Vile's EHAM for example.I think OP is thinking in terms of Scott's (et al) Free Flow Florida package in comparison to the Central Fla product.I like to look at the Hot File downloads for the month in the library to get a feel for the freeware side of the hobby. I'm concerned that there are so few FSX downloads (this could be a function of lack of user base for FSX than lack of files, but...). It's interesting that when you look at FSX aircraft downloads, most all are FS9 models ported to FSX (which PTaylor has told us is non-conformant).This is not "angst". It is just an observation. I'm not sure what it means. It would be interesting if AVSIM could survey everyone who has submitted files to the library and ask if they are still developing, if so which version they are targeting and why, and if not why not.For the "tax accountants": In the US if you don't show a profit after a few years, IRS is probably going to question if your scenery business is really a business or a hobby. If a hobby, expenses can only be counted to the extent of income. Of course, if a business, you get to learn about the joys of "self employment tax".scott s..

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>I don't think it is fair to hold out "Boston" as the>standard.I wasn't implying that Boston was the standard by any means. I would like to see a survey like the one you mention though.

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Hi Scott,I pointed out a few of the issues - from a landscape/scenery design perspective - here: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...2&page=2#428643There's probably fewer consistent users of FSX at this point than there was with FS9 four years ago, which might contribute to the smaller "pool" of freeware developers. However, it's still too early to tell whether output for FSX will remain at lower levels or not.As far as I can tell, with the same amount of effort you won't get the same level of quality in a new version of the sim, and that has been pretty much true for any version transition. Thus, the bar keeps moving up and we need either more contributors or people with more time (ha ha) to keep up with what the sim as a development platform allows us to do.What is not going to help us is proclamations of people who have nurtured some sense of entitlement to a steady stream of high-quality freeware. Freeware is only free to its users, not to its makers! That's primarily why I take offence with some of Fred's statements.Cheers, Holger

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>Hi Scott,>>I pointed out a few of the issues - from a landscape/scenery>design perspective - here:>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...2&page=2#428643>>There's probably fewer consistent users of FSX at this point>than there was with FS9 four years ago, which might contribute>to the smaller "pool" of freeware developers. However, it's>still too early to tell whether output for FSX will remain at>lower levels or not.>>As far as I can tell, with the same amount of effort you won't>get the same level of quality in a new version of the sim, and>that has been pretty much true for any version transition.>Thus, the bar keeps moving up and we need either more>contributors or people with more time (ha ha) to keep up with>what the sim as a development platform allows us to do.>>What is not going to help us is proclamations of people who>have nurtured some sense of entitlement to a steady stream of>high-quality freeware. Freeware is only free to its users, not>to its makers! That's primarily why I take offence with some>of Fred's statements.>>Cheers, HolgerIf you take offense to what I'm saying then you are reading me wrong. I thought you of all people would see what I was saying since you are one of the consistant developers on both fronts (free and pay.)

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