A Strange Marriage of RTM and SP1

[Guest Stoopy]

What I'm seeing here is that the method and specific file contents on how to do this has been explicitly outlined so as to (intentionally or not) promote that others begin to do the same and emulate the steps. So, unwittingly, as the O/P you are indeed kind of saying "do this"......temptation being what it is. I'm seeing Phil Taylor express serious concerns, based on intimate knowledge of the sim, as a result of this inferred temptation and what with it being posted out here on the big ol' internet and all, it's not likely that it's the support calls to the helpdesk from *you* that he's worried about, it's the calls that originate from any number of unseen readers, of all varying levels of technical expertise, who mess up their sim to a unsupportable level and that could happen once something goes amiss in attemting to emulate the above. Also, the 3rd-party items like FEX, UTX, etc etc are tested by a group of BETA participants prior to release. Not so here, so the analogy to other sim mods doesn't hold.I see it as fair warning for a reasonable cause. I also see that I have installed 2 service packs to FSX since its inception so I don't quite get the logic and statements that ACES has "done nothing". I'm sorry but that reads like a slap in the face to them and I don't think it's too difficult to be a bit more professional about it and say "Fair enough I understand your concern Phil and point taken".FWIW that's how the whole shebang reads.....

[Guest jase439]

>what baffles me is the strong negative sentiment coming from>MS regarding trying out your fix. i mean, what is the worst>that could happen- an uninstall and reinstall? Exactly. You know, I'm just trying to put fresh ideas out there because quite frankly, the old ones are getting onerous and bear little or no fruit. If quality Microsoft product support is a priority for you, no, you should not do this. If you're a novice computer user, no, you should not do this. If you're worried the repair option on the service pack installer may cease to function properly: don't do this. If you just think it's a p*ss poor idea and is really really scary, by all means: don't do this! But if you're a hobbiest like me and have been doing this since the days of the Apple IIe and want to try something to help yourself since MS will not, there is little to lose and everything to be gained. So far, the results have been very encouraging given my hardware and the way *I* like to use FS. I understand that everyone doesn't want to use FS the way I do, and that some people do not have blurries, and others do have them and simply don't care. But if you do care, and you're out of ideas, here's something else to try that isn't all that difficult to do. Your mileage may vary.That's it. There is no cunning devious plot with black helicopters at work here.>ACES' tone in response to your posts carries with it the>connotation of snickering and derision ("running with>scissors"; "franken-sim") and this belittles your efforts. i>hope you are not discouraged by it.I think Phil is just developing a special place in his heart for me ;-)

[Guest cbuchner1]

Thanks for the tip, I will try a "dual" installation in two folders. First your proposed Franken-Sim, and then also a clean install of SP2.As I will be demo'ing Tileproxy to a crowd of onlookers at a PC gathering in about 2 weeks, I hope this hack can provide the kind of performance that I haven't been able to achieve ever since SP1 arrived. I've even bought a Quad CPU to get more tiles loaded, but still I have to fly very slowly. *sigh*.Christian

[Guest cbuchner1]

One more thing: The SP1 version of simconnect.dll is likely going to throw some exceptions, in particular when functions are used that have been added in the SP1 version. For example: Ingame dialog boxes. So Phil is right when he warns about unexpected side effects that may show up only later.Christian

[Guest jase439]

>What I'm seeing here is that the method and specific file>contents on how to do this has been explicitly outlined so as>to (intentionally or not) promote that others begin to do the>same and emulate the steps. So, unwittingly, as the O/P you>are indeed kind of saying "do this"......temptation being what>it is. Dude, I'm just putting an idea out there. This was a community discussion forum the last I checked. I tried something, it appears to have worked, and I'm sharing that success story along with the knowledge of what I did with others to do or not do as you please. If you think it sucks, don't do it.

[PhilTaylor 45]

Exactly.If I do not speak up with a warning, then someone might read this and see lack of reply as an implicit approval.

[Guest jase439]

Sorry about the oversized screenshots, Tom. I just now realized I forgot to resize them - but you beat me to the punch.At 10K / 340 KTS (hope approach doesn't bust me for that infraction ;-)http://box156.bluehost.com/~aestudi1/images/rtm_fl100.jpgAt 18K / 290 KTShttp://box156.bluehost.com/~aestudi1/images/rtm_fl180.jpg

[Mace 1,896]

>>Dude, I'm just putting an idea out there. Well come on, first of all, it's not civil to call someone "dude" on the 'net. I mean, I might say that to my friends, "Dude, don't touch my beer", but not to someone I don't know personally.I kind of like the term "Frankensim", that's neat. There's nothing "wrong" with doing what you're doing, if it's something you want to experiment with. :) You seem to know well the potential problems you could have with mismatched .dll's and so you take it all for what it is. Let the modder beware.Also, someone compared modding .air and texture and .mdl files to mismatching .dll's earlier in this thread. That is an invalid comparison. Texture file mods like GEX, FEX, etc. are not system-level libs like .dlls are.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

[Guest Nils79]

Sorry, but this is the biggest bulls### i have ever read.The difference between you and the 3rd party developers: they know what they are doing.You are playing russian roulette. If you do this for yourself, ok, your problem, but suggesting this in public is really silly.

[Guest jase439]

Pffft...seriously...I give. I chanced across something I felt was interesting and I had the "audacity" - the "gaul" - to come here and share those findings with others: warts and all. You'd think I was promoting a book insisting the world was flat.So, I'm done here. I'll keep my "dastardly little laboratory experiment" to myself and not taint this sacred venue further with my less-than-puritanical mad science. The moderators may do what they will with this "irresponsible" thread.

[Guest Stoopy]

Well, after all this is a community discussion forum the last anyone checked so you just gotta learn to take the good with the bad.Phil does!:)

[cklink 0]

Jase439, looks like you got lots of support... LOLAnyways - thanks for posting your idea. Sounds like it took a lot of work, so thanks for sharing if you thought it could benefit others who may want to try it - whatever the risk. Quote: "When there *is* a real solution, one that fixes something without danger - that I do support and promote." PhilHoping ACES would be the ones to initiate the solution ;) Anyways I would like to know if ACES is going to continue/finish (or maybe share any findings) of it's investigation into this matter "will let us focus on the Type 1 and Type 2 blurries as real issues needing deeper investigation." - or is this a dead horse as far as they are concerned ? http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...04121&mode=fullWhile the 15 meg artical was a great inside of the terrain engine and zoom ratio's etc, but the issue at bay is still with slow loading tiles not fully loading to the set resolution (or only once your past them) when flying at higher or above GA speeds, even with sliders back and frames locked at 20 even though your hardware can pull well over 60+?Until then - I don't expect this issue to ever die right up to the day FS11 is released, and some users frustrated with them are going to go to all lengths as above (or some will just give up) to fix them. While some stuff you can live with, Blurries in flight are really the worst show stoppers. Just hope it's not deva vu in vNext as no-one figured out the real cause .. Regards'Garett

[Guest]

>Sorry, but this is the biggest bulls### i have ever read.>The difference between you and the 3rd party developers: they>know what they are doing.>You are playing russian roulette. If you do this for yourself,>ok, your problem, but suggesting this in public is really>silly.What I find silly is not his willingness to share his experiment, but your suggestion that he not.

[Guest zzmikezz]

Phil,It may surprise you that I chime in here on a positive note but I want to say two things:First, I have to agree with you. The side effects could go well beyond impact on third party addons all the way to overall system corruption. There is no way to tell other than the hard way.Second, while SP2 is frozen, it is not the case that there is no support from Microsoft. YOU are the support, and it comes out of your copious free personal time. I'm confident that most people recognize this and thank you for it.Happy New Year,2008 is going to be a year of many buried hatchets,And I started with Ron Hamilton (!),Mike McCarthy

[PhilTaylor 45]

Yes, I owe a blog post with more details wrt blurries, as I have stated in a few threads here. I will post it after the holidays, but the short answer is SP2 has a fix to help address Type 1 as I said in the original Acceleration/SP2 post. That fix is a direct result of the investigation. The SP2 SDK has an article on how to author scenery to avoid Type 1 also as a result of that investigation. We have confirmed with a leading photo-scenery author that the technique we describe in the SDK is similar to how they author without their customers suffering blurry problems as evidenced by traffic in their forums. No conclusive cause for Type 2 was found and thus the only fix we can suggest is reduce settings on a specific hardware configuration that sees them.Many users are reporting SP2 is better wrt blurries, and that new hardware is removing or drastically reducing them - which reinforces all of the above.