25 minutes ago, Jetman67 said:

Ok then it's a gameulation

As mentioned above it's not both at the same time. Depends on the user and the style of use. It is practice for pilots. It is a game for gamers. A Sim for simmers. A devspace for developers etc etc.

With all due respect,

 

If the mentality of some strong voices in avsim had their views we would all still be on a broken P3d platform. It really does seem to be the place for the metaphor  of sitting on the lawn and shouting at progress. 

I've been simming for 20years +, I uninstalled p3d over 3 years ago (I miss my beloved 777-200er) and I've had such incredible enjoyment on 2020.

 

2024 is the going to be the same.. Perhaps a little wonky at first, like all major releases, but that shouldn't stop it releasing and as far as I can see it's ready for.release. 

 

The important thing that you're also forgetting OP is the build that was on alpha was quite an old build. 

 

Kiddies in the playground comes to mind.

I think that constant negativity from a select few has more to do with people are burnt out on the hobby. Not only is negativity a strong drug, that activates beta-endorphines and dopamine in your brain, it's also hard for some people to just admit to themselves; they have no positive feelings towards the hobby they once spent so many hours on. So they just sit here, force themselves into the hobby because that's their little comfort zone and then spend an inordinate amount of time railing on absolutely every element they can find an angle to complain about.

You see the exact same happening in the larger gaming sphere. A lot of people completely burnt out on gaming, something they grew up on and they just don't know what else to do with their life outside of work. So they force themselves into it, jaded, negative and then spend more time on forums and social media complaining, whining, being critical and desperately pretending what they do is some form of nuanced constructive feedback, with some logic behind it, despite most of it just being complaining with zero nuance and absolutely no respect given to the product.

 

@aceridgey Hey Alex, nice to see you back on Avsim.

Jon

11 minutes ago, Sethos said:

I think that constant negativity from a select few has more to do with people are burnt out on the hobby. Not only is negativity a strong drug, that activates beta-endorphines and dopamine in your brain, it's also hard for some people to just admit to themselves; they have no positive feelings towards the hobby they once spent so many hours on.

Sounds like me at the Xplane forum lately 😏 lol...

2 hours ago, aceridgey said:

we would all still be on a broken P3d platform.

It’s not broken. It’s been deserted by many but not everyone. My installation is absolutely fine.

2 hours ago, aceridgey said:

(I miss my beloved 777-200er)

Then you should have kept P3D just for that aircraft. It’s perfectly acceptable to have two sims installed. They don’t throw tantrums if you use the other one. 😉

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s not broken. It’s been deserted by many but not everyone. My installation is absolutely fine.

Then you should have kept P3D just for that aircraft. It’s perfectly acceptable to have two sims installed. They don’t throw tantrums if you use the other one. 😉

I want to like that post TWICE Ray lol. I have 3 sims installed and they all work great together. I got that 4tb nvme (S:SIM) drive for a reason! 

On another point, there seems to be a general misconception that the terms 'game' and 'gamer' are somehow insults compared to 'sim' and 'simmer'. In fact there are subdivisions within each category ranging from casual to hardcore. Some gamers (as well as simmers) take the hobby very seriously and aim for realism as much as is possible. Some even make careers out of it. 

I'm happy personally to be a 'serious' gamer and simmer. In my games I can make a mistake and 'die' by walking into a room full of enemies unprepared without backup. I then lose hours of progress or have to restart from beginning which makes the experience incredibly tense and more realistic. 

In my sim I like the flight model, weather, physics and aircraft systems to be as accurate as possible because in the real world flying ranges from inherently highly dangerous for the unprepared to very safe for the well trained and read. 

The one major difference I'd say between games and sims is that a game can be casual, serious, fun, difficult whatever and it's still a GAME, nobody cares theres THOUSANDS of them to pick from. 

A sim however will get ridiculed if it's NOT real world accurate. In fact it's a valid argument imo to say a sim is not even a sim but something else, light entertainment if you will for not being true to life. 

Just please don't call a sim a game if you're trying to knock it. THAT'S the snobiness that annoys me. 

Good game, bad game, good sim, bad sim. Both games and sims are capable of greatness. 

 

On 10/13/2024 at 2:20 AM, fsxmissionguy said:

I am not Alpha testing Flight Simulator 2024

So the statement in this thread's title "FS2024 is not ready and shouldnt be released" is completely irrelevant and unfounded then.

I seem to remember many, many simmers saying exactly the same about 2020, and that was following the official release. I'm sure 2024 will be no different.

4 hours ago, Sethos said:

I think that constant negativity from a select few has more to do with people are burnt out on the hobby.

Unfortunately, it turns off newcomers. I enjoy teaching people who have never been into flight simulators to fly. You could say it's one of my hobbies within the hobby.

The biggest friction factor isn't the difficulty of the simulator or the patience it requires to learn. It's the impact with certain segments of the community that are never happy, no matter what. The constant FUD, vicious attacks against Asobo and other devs, lack of any form of respect, snark, cheerleading for failure, and so forth, they make some of the angriest, most negative communities in gaming feel like they spend the time singing Kumbayah.  

Thank goodness MSFS managed to bring some much-needed new blood into this community, but much more is needed to outweigh the ultra-jaded faction. Luckily, MSFS 2024 is likely to do just that.

8 hours ago, Jetman67 said:

Ok then it's a gameulation

It is a game AND simulation, depending on it's use.

on the ridiculousness scale the discussion on sim or game scores directly behind staring a thread with 'goodday captains'

 

 

Just FYI I was alpha/beta tester of MSFS back in 2020. In my opinion MSFS back then was it much worse shape than MSFS2024 techical alpha. By the way in close beta forum there was a similar topic "MSFS is not ready delay launch". LOL And already  you know the rest  of the story MSFS 2020 was still released LOL I think four years later Asobo is well weathered to deal with stress LOL

1 hour ago, Rocky_53 said:

Me parece recordar que muchos, muchos simmers dijeron exactamente lo mismo sobre 2020, y eso fue después del lanzamiento oficial. Estoy seguro de que 2024 no será diferente.

The bible thumpers have been selling us the magic last day patch since video games started updating over the internet. I don't have the crystal ball to know how this game is going to come out in a few weeks but I'm tired of seeing how those magic last day patches rarely worked.