707 cockpit crew: 3 or 4?

[michal 44]

Quick question:Was Boeing 707 (I assume early models) ever operated with a cockpit crew of 4?Michael J.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Michael,The B707's did have a crew of 4. I'm speaking of long haul international flights. (early models carried a navigator - the sextant was their primary navigation instrument)NavigatorFlight EngineerFirst OfficerCaptain.Once the Navigator was given the flick; replaced by technology - loran, doppler, INS, the working crew was effectively reduced to 3.Flight Engineersecond officer/observer/vacant - I flew in this seat myself on a few test flights.First OfficerCaptain Roger

[michal 44]

>Once the Navigator was given the flick; Thanks Roger. Do you know when approximately it happened ??Michael J.

[RFields5421 1]

A quick check of accident reports shows several B707 crashes up into the mid-70's with cockpit crews of four - Captain, First Officer, Second Officer and Flight Engineer. In some there is a Third Officer and either no FE or no Second Officer.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

>Thanks Roger. Do you know when approximately it happened ??Now you're testing the old brain cells. I think it would have been in the early 1960's. I'm sorry I can't be much more definitive. I'll have a scour through what info I have and see if I can come up with a more precise answer. Of course I'm referring to only one airline, but I'm reasonably sure that Qantas would have been one of the last to use a navigator as they flew across the Pacific which is one heck of a stretch of water.Roger

[Cessnaflyer 56]

The coveted 4th in command position ;)

[RFields5421 1]

For Pan Am at least - as late as 1974 - the fourth officer was a Navigator / relief pilot.All four cockpit crew had pilot certificates, ATP ratings, Navigation certificates and type ratings as B707 Second Officers. Even the Flight Engineers.

[Cessnaflyer 56]

Yeah there was quite a bit of knowledge up in those cockpits those early years.

[ABE 0]

I started flying as a purser(flight attentdant) for TWA in 1970. To my recollection, there was a 4th crewmember (a relief pilot) on international flights only.Abe