Passengers, Weight, Problems!

[Guest ianrivaldosmith]

Hi all, Hoping someone can help with the following query/problem:-I am flying with the LevelD767. I load my plane with all the correct fuel calculated with a planner, and build my route with FSBUILD. I also set the correct passenger/cargo weight with the leveld pre-flight software.Now say for example im all set to go at the gate with all weight configured, and trim etc....What if I start using a program such as XPAX? The passengers take 5-10mins to load, all the time adding weight to my plane! Hows this done? what do I do, is there anyway I can find the pax weight before they load?(or only once they are fully boarded?) hows it done in real life? the pilots must get some sort of notice of the weight before hand to correctly calculate fuel and trim settings?

[slashed2 53]

I'm assuming here so bear with me, but I believe the airlines use a standard average weight per passenger like 170 or something to that effect and calculate using the passenger manifest. Baggage/cargo is obviously weighed during check in and they must have an average number for carryon weight I would assume.Using the ERJ 145 from feelther the FMC I think uses 190 per passenger which may have the average carryon weight tacked on to the average 170.

[Mike T 208]

In real life the gate agent gives the pilots the load sheet before closing the door which gives the total souls on board and from that you get your weight and balance (190lbs per soul) as well as the number of checked bags (assuming max allowed 35-50 lbs per bag depending on airline policy). So now you have the number of passengers and bags in the cargo hold (along with any other cargo).However, the initial load is already calculated from dispatch which is taken from the known number of passengers already booked, number of bags and cargo) so you know an approximate calculated weight so fuel can be ordered. But this number is subject to change. For instance, lets say that a bunch of passengers from a connecting flight never make that flight and the loads are off by 30 passengers.Your ZFW will change according to the final load sheet which will affect your inputs into the FMC (which is why you don't put them in until you get the final loadsheet from the gate agent), at which point you finish your INIT REF calculations which will give you final trim, flaps and D-TO settings.HTH,Mike T.

[Guest ianrivaldosmith]

So if this is the case, then Xpax is useless, because it doesnt let you know how much passenger OR cargo is to be loaded, until the last passenger steps on the plane! By which time its time to go, not start calculatuons allover again! Fspassengers for fs2004 is different, in that it tells you a load sheet BEFORE hand so that you know how many passengers are loading.hmmmmmmm

[Mike T 208]

FSPassengers is the way to go and is more realistic in its resentation vis a v real life. Now, you can also use the load planner that came with the LDS767 because it gives you the ability to do a random passenger and cargo load. I generally use the load planners for PMDG 737,747, LDS 767 and PSS 777,757. That way I can plan fuel and input the data into the FMC. With that said, I fly 100% as realistically as is required for the real world.1) Get into the cockpit 1 hour for narrow body, 1:15 for widbody before departure - Do a walk around with ActiveCamera.2) Use AES for boarding (at airports so equipped) and start boarding 30 minutes for narrowbody and 45 minutes for widebody.3) Check the real world flight on Continental.com to verify the real time the aircraft is leaving (early or delayed).4) Prior to departure check final loads, enroute weather and fuel (- APU time) and make sure no more fuel is needed.But that's just me. MSFS keeps me sane since I am not flying commercially anymore so I am anal on replicating my experiences as a FO for Continental. Warm Regards,Mike T.

[timers15 11]

I believe FSPassengers is well on it's way for FSX. (Being this is a FSX forum)

[JSkorna 137]

Hi Ian,If you install the public beta you will be able to know the weights before you start boarding.Thanks!Jimhttp://www.hifisim.com/banners/hifi-community-sigbanner.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/

[Guest ianrivaldosmith]

I have Hotfix 122207, is this the latest build?Also, where do I see the pax and cargo weight before I actually begin loading the pax?Cheers!

[JSkorna 137]

That is the latest official version, but we have a public beta version posted at our forum.Thanks!Jimhttp://www.hifisim.com/banners/hifi-community-sigbanner.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/

[XWRed5 0]

Every airline does it differently but the airline I fly for issues us with a Provisional Loadsheet. This is the dispatchers "best guess" at the weight and balance. We enter the figures in the box and work out performance based on those weights + 1t (shorthaul, I don't know what the longhaul boys use).Once the doors are closed they finalise the figures and send them to us by ACARS. Part of our before take off checks are to acknowledge the final loadsheet, if the trim and weights on the final loadsheet are within certain limits from the provisional (where the +1t comes from earlier on in the performance calcs) the loadsheet is said to be in compliance and we do nothing before take off. If the loadsheet has gone out of limits then they issue us with revisions. We then have to redo the performance (or reset the trim) for the new figures. In all honesty it's very rare we have to recalculate the performance, we sometimes have to change the trim though.In flight we update the weights to their correct values.The fuel decision is made separately and we rarely worry too much about payload, the difference in fuel required is usually so small it's not worth the it. Again, the longhaul boys may do but us shorthaul people just don't care.Hope this helps,Ian