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Guest Mike Truly

General Creation Questions About FSX

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Guest Mike Truly

I apologize in advance for the newbieness of my questions. I am a very new user of FSX and am extremely intrigued by this program.I am an experienced 3D modeler and animator. I use 3DSMAX2008 and have used this program since 3D Studio DOS ver1 as well as lots of other animation, compositing and graphics programs. So I know all about modeling and animation, etc.I am interested in learning all about FSX but in particular, in this post, am interested in learning about the customizability of FSX using all possible means. What I am trying to get my head around at the moment is just what is (and what isn't possible) regarding customizing using any available means. At this point, I am trying to understand what is involved (the process) in a general sense to customize the experience in FSX.So for example...1. Creating aircraft and scenery. I know that you can obtain a program called FSDS and create aircraft and (some?) scenery for use in FSX. This appears to be a basic 3D program and since I already have 3D programs... can I use MAX instead to create my models? Can my MAX models be imported into this FSDS for export into FSX? When your using FSDS, how do you know your placing your building or tree or runway in the right spot in FSX? Are there other, competing programs like FSDS for creating FSX models/scenery?2. Texturing aircraft. I know there is RePaint. Can MAX be used instead for this function? Are there other competing apps that do this function?3. MOST IMPORTANT... I would like the ability to be able to take a set of data of a (real) aircraft flight and import it into FSX and make the FSX aircraft fly the flight. Is this possible? I believe that when I use the 'Flight Video' function, in the background it is recording the data of the aircraft flight path (and other data) and then when I tell it to replay it, it is not playing a video but rather is re-running the sim with the recorded data. This is what I want except I want to be able to use my own flight data. Is it possible to see and edit this recorded data in some way?Again, I don't need absolute specifics at this point but a general understanding if these things are possible and what methods/tools I would use to do them.I am astounded at the quality of FSX but am also equally astounded that there doesn't seem to be an all encompassing FS Edit app that would let you do all these things in a visual way like working in 3DSMAX.Thanks very much!

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Low level answers to your questions;1. Use 3DSMax, as part of the SDKs has plugins and scripts available just for this line of products.2. Same as above, no need to go outside of 3DS.3, Don't know.2 out of 3 isn't too bad! You might venture over to this site; http://www.fsdeveloper.com/ Explore the forums, check out the Wiki, find out just how much fun and aggravation the design world of FSX can be...

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Guest Mike Truly

Thanks very much for the info and links. I take it that there is a lot of aggravation in creating for FSX.There are SO many various websites dealing with all thing FS it's hard to know where to start.#3 is very critical to my efforts and at this point, everything hinges around it. If it's not possible (and from the lack of info I've gotten in various places regarding it, it's either impossible or very difficult), then it may limit how far I pursue this.Regarding #1 and #2, I take it to mean the 3DSMAX SDK is where these scripts or plugins reside that would take 3D models from MAX to FS?I should note that I'm not really a programmer so I'm not sure how far I can pursue any of this... just a lowly artist.Thanks again.

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>Regarding #1 and #2, I take it to mean the 3DSMAX SDK is where>these scripts or plugins reside that would take 3D models from>MAX to FS?>>I should note that I'm not really a programmer so I'm not sure>how far I can pursue any of this... just a lowly artist.>>Thanks again.>The SDKs that I refer to are the FSX SDKs, a part of the Deluxe version of FSX.

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Guest Mike Truly

Thanks for the clarification. I DO have the Deluxe version of FSX. Would these have been installed automatically? Because I don't see any SDK stuff in the directories, etc. nor the START menu. After installing from disk, I later installed SP1 and SP2. When I insert the install disk again, it asks do I want to repair or remove.Do I have to completely uninstall and then re-install to get the SDK? (This was a long... long process).Thanks again.

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Guest Mike Truly

Nevermind. I found the SDK folder on the disk itself.Thanks!

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Guest Stoopy

#3 is somewhat possible or you can get very very close with a freeware add-on program called FS-Recorder. It does *not* allow you to enter flight parameters manually (although the data files can be edited), but it *does* record flight vector data (speed, altitude, attitude, and certain events such as engine, lights, etc) and save it as a flight parameter file. You can then re-inject, if you will, that data back through FS-Recorder via the "replay" function (or "replay as AI") to have the flight repeat itself at your will, and under different external circumstances such as time and weather.The downside of this approach is that you "enter" the data by actually performing the flight in FSX first, so you'd need to do that, or have any number of proficient volunteer pilots do that for you and send you the file.More info here....good luck!http://www.fs-recorder.net/

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Guest Mike Truly

I think FS-Recorder may be the ticket... thank you VERY much! Someone else had suggested this to me earlier but it wasn't made clear that these videos are not videos at all but rather sim re-runs. Since I thought that they were actual videos that FS-Recorder made, I thought that there was no way to edit the values.There seem to be several tools for editing the values of the FS-Recorder 'recording'. (I have to explore this more). If this pans out, it will be great.Thanks again.

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Hi Mike,>3. MOST IMPORTANT... I would like the ability to be able to>take a set of data of a (real) aircraft flight and import it>into FSX and make the FSX aircraft fly the flight.With SimConnect (part of the SDK) you can read all kinds of data from FSX and as well feed data like position, speed, direction, and much more into FSX. However, you cant change physics, e.g. you cant fly the Cessna 172 at Mach 2 - but you could use slew mode.What exactly do you have in mind ?Martin

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>Thanks very much for the info and links. I take it that>there is a lot of aggravation in creating for FSX.>>There are SO many various websites dealing with all thing FS>it's hard to know where to start.I wouldn't characterize it as "aggravation" per se, but it is most definitely a "challenge!" :-lol I would heartily second the advice to register and use the forums at http://freeflightdesign.com myself. Many of the most knowledgable and talented freeware (and even some 'professional') developers make that their home.There's a great wealth of knowledge archived there as well as plethora tutorials, tips and great entertainment! :-beerchug As for your #3 question, there are quite a few who're already using SimConnect to drive the sim from external software programs they've developed.


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556


     Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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Guest Mike Truly

Martin,In reading the SDK docs... I get the feeling that there are lots of possibilities but that (as a non-programmer) they may be more complex than I can handle (certainly at this point). I was reading about 'Waypoint' objects and thought they might possibly be a way of telling an aircraft to 'be here at this time, be here at the next time, etc.'.Currently, with the FSX Flight Recorder and the add-on FS-Record, the 'videos' are not videos at all but rather a recording of the sim data that is later played back (re-run) in FSX. As the user 'eyeballs' their flight (with their skill level), the data is recorded and later played back.What I want is a means of precisely inputting the flight data (we'll start with the basics such as XYZ Pitch Roll Heading Time) rather than flying with my joysticks, etc. I want this for the purpose of precisely flying a flight to a known set of values and being able to verify those values. So if someone provides me with a set of values and I can produce a flight for them... there is a way to verify that those are the actual values being used.After I have made a FRC recording of a sim using FS-Record, I can use another utility such as the FRC Editor and instantly see the Lat Lon Alt Pitch Roll Heading Time, etc. This is great for the verification aspect. But now I need to find a way of getting MY values used rather than the values that were generated with a eyeballed flight.Regarding your comment about defying physics, I can assure you I don't want to defy physics in doing this, but I'm wondering why you say I can't defy physics since I CAN defy physics all day long in my 3D animation app? Tell an aircraft to be at this point one second and another point another second and you've got MACH2. In looking at the flight recorder data generated by FS-Recorder, if I were able to input my data, why couldn't I use data that defied physics?Thanks!

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Guest Mike Truly

Thanks for the tips Bill! I've got a lot to learn (obviously) and my brain hurts at this point.Are any of these sim driving products for sale? For example, where the user would feed in flight data (say from a TXT file or Excel spreadsheet) and it would fly the aircraft per the parameters?Thanks again.

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Guest Mike Truly

It is great. I just edited the parameters (altitude) of a FS-Recorder recording. I then went and played it back in FSX... it seemed to work great! Thanks again for this suggestion.

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Hi Mike,to give a somewhat solid advice, i need to know more about the original problem you are trying to solve.Here are two extreme cases of original problems to illustrate the possible solutions ..Problem A) Near some big airport, a new 1100 ft skyscraper is being built very close to waypoint Delta. Because of that, the published approach to runway X has to be changed. Your boss has invented a new one that is pretty much the same as the old one except for these minor adjustments:- Altitude at waypoint Alpha was and will be 2000 ft.- Altitude at waypoint Delta was 1000 ft but will be 1500 ft.- Altitude at waypoint Gamma was and will be 500 ft.Which means from Alpha to Delta the aircraft will have to sink slower than before, but from Delta to Gamma it will have to sink faster than before.Your job is to do a first check if that new approach looks ok or not, and so you want to look at it in FSX, and you want to try if it is possible to fly that new approach.So you create some custom scenery addon with the new skyscraper.Next, you define a flight plan in FSX that follows the waypoints of the new approach. Then you fly it in a C172 and a B747. In FSX, both have GPS and autopilot, so they can follow the track, but you have to set altitude and sink rate on the autopilot manually. Or you could write a little SimConect program that monitors position and sets altitude and sink rate on the autopilot. Or you could get some addon aircraft (e.g. from LevelD or others) that has a FMC/FMS with VNAV management.Then you could play with the weather settings in FSX to give all kinds of bad conditions and see what happens ..To the professionals: No, i dont think that ARINC 42x conforming approaches should be developed this way .. The important point in this example is, that the real world data is very loosely coupled to the simulation. We have a very small number of real world data samples (just the 3 waypoints and altitude) with lots of time between (minutes). FSX "connects the dots" using its own idea of weather and aerodynamics and cockpit systems simulation. The multimillion dollar simulators from Boing and others are most likely somewhat more precise.Problem :( After some soaring plane championship you get the pilots flight recordings and you have to check if someone has cheated by editing the recorded data. The recorded data looks like this:one sample every 10 seconds, consisting of latitude, longitude and altitude. Each sample is one line in a text file. You write a SimConnect program that reads the recorded data and sends one sample every 10 seconds to FSX. On each received sample, FSX sets the aircrafts position accordingly and lets the FSX engine run. With a locked frame rate of 20 fps, FSX will have calculated and drawn 200 frames until the next sample comes in. Most likely the simulated aircraft position, orientation and speed in FSX after these 200 frames will differ slightly from the next real world data sample. For example, in FSX the left wing touched a thermal with 3 fpm uplift, but in the real flight the right wing touched a 7 fpm thermal uplift. So in FSX the aircraft will do a small jump every 10 seconds to resync with the recorded data. It depends on your original problem, whether these small jumps just look funny but are tolerable or not. For example if you see a sudden huge jump instead of lots of tiny jumps, the recorded data smells like cheating ..In this example the simulation is coupled very tightly to the recorded data (lots of samples) with small time steps.Each problem comes with its own can of worms ..Thats why i need to know more about your original problem.What real world data is recorded ?- position (lat, lon, alt)- aircraft orientation (pitch, roll, yaw angles)- speed (amount and direction), momentum (1st derivation)- sample rate- small plane or big iron- what else ..What is important about the resulting simulated flight ?- view from outside- view from cockpit to outside- displayed values on cockpit instruments- preformance data (time enroute, fuel consumption, derivation from planned track/altitude, ...)- what simulation errors are tolerable- what errors are not tolerable- what else ..Martin

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