Pilot Discipline

[mgh 89]

Ryanair's aircrew have recently been critised in official reports over a series of dangerous approaches. Ryanair's policy is now "...any event involving any of our aircraft passing the 500 foot landing-gate incorrectly configured or at excessive speed, which triggers a GPWS hard warning - and which does not perform a go-around - will automatically be demoted in the case of the first transgression of this policy. In the event of a second transgression of the policy, the relevant crew member will be automatically dismissed." Provision is made for exeptional circumstances. This was triggered by an event in which the catain decided not to go-around but flew in a tight circle to lose height, exceeding the normal operating limits of his 737. The captain ignored warnings about height from the second pilot and flew at an altitude of 425 ft over a built-up area of Cork.

[Guest RiddlePilot]

I have to say that just because the captain flew over a "built-up area" doesn't necessarily mean he was breaking any rules. I don't know much about the rules regarding GPWS, but I don't think there should be any recourse against the flight crews if the airplane is flown in a normal flight envelope, with landing runway in sight, during the circle procedure. Heck, I just flew a localizer only approach where I skimmed the entire city of Savannah, GA at 480 feet. I might have gotten a few complaints from residents (haven't heard anything yet though), but I was TOTALLY in the normal realm of flight, adhering to published procedures. I'd be willing to bet that if anyone went so far as to press charges against my actions, it would hold no water in court as I could show the judge the chart and say "this is the procedure and this is what I did...legally"

[KevinAu 441]

You are confusing somebody trying to make a bad approach "work" with a circling procedure. Much different things. A circle to land is done in a confined area that was surveyed to ensure that there are no obstacles. When you do whatever it takes to make a high energy approach work, you are on your own. Who is to say that they were not going to circle right into a tower or building, just like Corey Lidle.

[mgh 89]

You should have read the original post more carefully and not just have picked-up on one point.The aircraft was too high. Instead of going around the pilot chose to lose height by circling so tightly while descending that he exceeded the aircraft's normal operating limits and he also ignored the co-pilot's warnings about loss of height. The conclusions of the independent enquiry was that this serious incident occured because the pilot did not comply with standard procedures and ignored the advice of the co-pilot.

[Guest squidie]

>Ryanair's aircrew have recently been critised in official>reports over a series of dangerous approaches. Ryanair's>policy is now "...any event involving any of our aircraft>passing the 500 foot landing-gate incorrectly configured or at>excessive speed, which triggers a GPWS hard warning - and>which does not perform a go-around - will automatically be>demoted in the case of the first transgression of this policy.>In the event of a second transgression of the policy, the>relevant crew member will be automatically dismissed." >Provision is made for exeptional circumstances. >>This was triggered by an event in which the catain decided not>to go-around but flew in a tight circle to lose height,>exceeding the normal operating limits of his 737. The captain>ignored warnings about height from the second pilot and flew>at an altitude of 425 ft over a built-up area of Cork. My criticism why Ryanair

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>My criticism why Ryanair

[mgh 89]

Ryanair is going to do what its board memo stated as quoted in my original post.

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>Ryanair is going to do what its board memo stated as quoted>in my original post.what is a GPWS hard warning?keep in mind the cheapskates at Ryanair management would love to fire pilots left and right and replace them with cheaper, less senior ones.

[Guest oyvindhansen]

Ryanair use very tight turnaround schedules which basically doesn't leave room for second attempts. Thus many of the pilots will stretch the limits to make any approach work the first time around. But facing complaints the management prefer to threaten the pilots rather than loosening the schedules. -

[Guest avallillo]

This is now more or less standard airline policy, albeit without the draconian threats of dismissal. The FAA essentially ordered all airlines, about a year or two ago, to fly all approaches "stabilized"; that is, within certain parameters. If, by 1000 agl, or 500 agl on a purely visual approach, the aircraft is not within these parameters, or goes outside of them below those levels in any sustained manner, the approach MUST be abandoned - no ifs ands or buts. Apparently Ryanair is taking the same approach, although again, the threats of dismissal are counterproductive to safety, and should not have been included.It it worth noting, though, that the FAA itself may well take certificate action against a pilot for violating the stabilized approach rule without serious justification. That, in itself, might well result in at least temporary unemployment (!) but would probably not result in termination at a US airline.Tony Vallillo