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Posted

Hello,

been using BATC on last couple of flights. And while I said this might replace VATSIM for me, I am at kinda position where this opinion is shaken now.

I know BATC is coming with LLM, but right now, I don't see how some things might get fixed.

Right now, I am getting way too often "I didn't get that" or "Negative" on read-back. Sometimes I use the computer generated reply, which also happens sometimes to get rejected and it has to be done a 2nd time. Right now it happened at LOWW, as I was getting taxi instruction, even AI repeat had to be repeated the 2nd time.

Then, and this happened now twice, is that I get taxi instruction, but then an aircraft pulls in in front of me and stays there. Nobody is moving. BATC is saying hold position for traffic.

And finally, my last landing, I got a completely reasonless go-around. Nobody was on or in the vicinity of the runway. Weather was good. Absolutely no reason for GA.

Posted

It has a looooong way to go. I'm flying into Larnaca right now and want to do the usual ILSX approach via the LCA VOR transition. Nope, can't do that. BATC wants to vector me, and I can't request the specific approach. I usually run into something like this at each flight and it's at this point I switch to a random freq and BATC becomes a glorified AI traffic tool. We'll see what LLM brings I guess. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, chapstick said:

I'm flying into Larnaca right now and want to do the usual ILSX approach via the LCA VOR transition. Nope, can't do that. BATC wants to vector me, and I can't request the specific approach. 

Just curious as a human experiment but what would you do if on VATSIM or PE and dealing with a human that would not give you the approach or route that you wanted? Have you every tried "Unable" to see if they can give you a different option?

I'm with you on having an idea of what approach I would like to fly that works best for me and I fly both with SI and PE. PE will mostly accommodate all approach request as the airports are usually traffic free but getting the same route that I filed is a different story. Where SI will do the opposite on an average. 

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Posted (edited)

Realistically, it's a bold move to get an application to do things in a way a human would. Though LLM brings some great potential, you will not be at a level of having a human at VATSIM. You can get close for sure. Take DCS for example. I will never get the same experience as fighting hostile humans vs AI hostiles. I won't be able to have a thinking fight with the AI, I am pulled into a technical fight with the AI aircraft. My AI wingman will fight a technical fight as well instead of thinking tactics. ATC in the sim is the same. AI won't react or think the way we do, they will be technical based on coding.

But, what we get with good third party apps like beyond ATC, is a realistic feel above what the built in ATC will give. Also, continue to report those issues that you find. I only have problems when receiving expected approaches. It always have a hard time accepting my response, though I read it back exactly.

Edited by G550flyer
edit
Posted

It's hit and miss with BATC.  For airliners it generally gets me from point A to B.  For GA flights it's been quite abysmal.  I think it does better when there are structured procedures such as SIDs and STARs to follow.

  • Like 1

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Posted

It was running flawlessly for me up until the recent update, now I'm getting some weird quirks and disconnects from the sim. Its still amazing as far as I'm concerned.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Simon_C said:

I know BATC is coming with LLM, but right now, I don't see how some things might get fixed.

 

52 minutes ago, chapstick said:

We'll see what LLM brings I guess. 

 

21 minutes ago, G550flyer said:

Though LLM brings some great potential, you will not be at a level of having a human at VATSIM. You can get close for sure.

Not sure what you guys are expecting of the upcoming BATC LLM beta but as posted above: curb your entusiasm...! The upcoming LLM addition will be informational only. It will have absolutely nothing to do with ATC procedures. As such it will be, imho, nothing but a perhaps fun gimmick. It won't enhance the ATC in any way. You can ask BATC things that are (somehow) related to your flight or the current 'BATC world'. So things like 'what's the destination of the plane that's parked beside me' or (perhaps) 'what approach can I expect'. Informational only. You can't ask things like 'I'd like this or that runway, please' or anything else that's related to actual ATC.

I have to say I have my doubts about the realism of this LLM option... You can ask things you'd never (dare to) ask of ATC in real life. I doubt if I will use it.

The only interesting part of the LLM beta is that they said it's some sort of first step towards future VFR support... in some way.

Edited by mistolip
  • Upvote 1
Posted
21 minutes ago, mistolip said:

It won't enhance the ATC in any way.

Of course it will. For a start, as demonstrated, it will give you far more options in terms of how you communicate with ATC, right now it seems to be pretty strict in terms of how it reads your audio which is why you get the "I didn't get that" or "Negative" responses. LLM will open up this bottleneck and that alone is a good thing.

An example for me when flying into EHAM the other night;

"KLM934, wind 230 at 29, cleared to land runway 18R"

"Runway 18R cleared to land, KLM934"

"Negative, cleared to land runway 18R"

"Runway 18R cleared to land, KLM934"

"Negative, cleared to land runway 18R"

So I try

"Cleared to land runway 18R" and finally this works.

LLM will hopefully fix those kinds of interactions.

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Posted
Just now, El Diablito said:

LLM will hopefully fix those kinds of interactions.

Hm, we'll see... I doubt it. You can use LLM as some sort of Say again option but that's informational only also. I wouldn't count on actual decision making ATC with this LLM.

Posted

Beyond ATC is for me the best under the bad air traffic programs.

I would have preferred to have rock-solid core ATC functionality before even thinking about traffic injection. Now the next shiny thing, an LLM, appears on the horizon.

Sometimes I have to admit to myself:
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"

 

Posted

This thread answered many questions for me.  My primary use will be GA ILS and VFR and it actually LEARN how to properly communicate with ATC.  So...  it sounds like the best strategy is to wait a while, see how LLM is integrated and go for it at some future point when it evolves into something that's more like what I need...?

Is that a fair assessment?

Posted
5 minutes ago, Cavemanhead said:

This thread answered many questions for me.  My primary use will be GA ILS and VFR and it actually LEARN how to properly communicate with ATC.  So...  it sounds like the best strategy is to wait a while, see how LLM is integrated and go for it at some future point when it evolves into something that's more like what I need...?

Is that a fair assessment?

BATC doesn't offer VFR...yet. You should look Say Intentions as it does offer VFR and already has LLM if you dont want to wait. I believe they have a free trial period.

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Posted
33 minutes ago, mistolip said:

Hm, we'll see.

Of course, we should all reserve judgement until its launched and tested but as mentioned before, considering this is a work in progress it has really delivered so far. The injection alone blows FSLTL's vanilla injector out of the water in terms of immersion.

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Posted
21 minutes ago, hhbrbg said:

I would have preferred to have rock-solid core ATC functionality before even thinking about traffic injection. Now the next shiny thing, an LLM, appears on the horizon.

You could always just.. watch the video about why an LLM is coming. You can also read their roadmap about the current path they're taking and personally I prefer it.

I only just got BATC because I was specifically waiting for traffic, I see no point of getting ATC in a completetly empty soulless environment. The introduction of Traffic makes things just feel so alive and immerssive that it's solved my issue with Vatsim lacking coverage in the non-popular areas I fly (understandable why). Not to mention I would argue the adding traffic is critical to improving the ATC functionality. You can't develop a core ATC functionality without it understanding how to deal with other aircraft added to the mix.

At the end of the day this is an early-access product, yes there's bugs and weird quirks but, I'm not going to judge as if it's anything else.

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