There has always been some antagonistic, useless bickering threads on Avsim but I agree with the OP, it’s gotten much worse since 2024 was released.

Honestly I wish there was a way to just hide entire threads on the forum.  There still good useful stuff here and great people, and I enjoy helping people out here as much as I can, but the endless arguing, whining and negativity is over the top.  I get some people are frustrated with 2024 (including me from time to time), but repeatedly complaining about the same things helps nothing.

There’s enough negativity and angst in the world, I don’t need it in my hobby life.

19 minutes ago, regis9 said:

Honestly I wish there was a way to just hide entire threads on the forum.

I agree. This is the best function on the official forum. Here you can ignore users which is great but there you can zap entire threads forever. I'm guessing their forum was a bit more expensive to set up than this one which always seems to be hanging on by a thread. 

I've said this a couple of times but it is worth repeating - I wish people realize who they are venting at.  You are being nasty with your fellow simmers, not MS/Asobo.

I hear this a lot, "I am unhappy as a customer and I have a right to complain!".  - No argument from me on that, just a reminder that you are not complaining to the company, you are venting at your fellow simmers.  

We're not saying you can't complain, we're saying that complaining at us is accomplishing nothing.  

If you get banned on the official forums (maybe that's a red flag to you that your behavor is not ok?), there's reddit, social media, a bunch of other places way more visible than here.  

The big problem is that there's no meaningful bug reporting, and nobody is looking for causes.  Saying "the game is broken" is not helpful.  Listing out your bugs and more importantly - what addons you have installed would actually be useful.

My other issue is that people get threads locked.  Ignoring users only go so far, within a couple of pages, every thread devolves into the same complains from the same couple of people.  I see entire pages where all the content is from ignored users.  

There's already way more negative threads than positive (which is fine), but when those same people go out to get the positive ones locked, that's a problem.  We're way beyond discussion at this point.  It would be fine if the negative talk stayed in the obviously negative threads.  

Sadly I don't even use this place for discussion anymore, it just isn't useful.  I just want to see updates on addons that I might otherwise miss.  The only other place to get that is youtubers, which is a whole different issue (I often don't want to spend 20 minutes to hear about the 1 addon I might be interested in).  

I would (with respect) ask the moderators here to consider taking other action instead of locking threads.  

9 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

I guess you missed the MS 2004 vs FSX days then and then FSX to P3D days etc.

... and the Terminal Reality (Fly!)/Microsoft days...

I still find Avsim to be one of the best sites for problem-solving, tweaking and development - certainly far more than the official MS forum.

I guess the type of post that bothers me the most is not one of disagreement/flaming (as soon as I see one of these I just bypass it and move on) - it's the response to someone in difficulty that simply says "no problem here".  Saying that you aren't having an issue is important to an extent, but don't just write off the person experiencing the problem without helping,

13 hours ago, btacon said:

Now?  Bickerfest after bickerfest over MSFS2020 vs MSFS2024.  Always negative, seldom enlightening.  I’ve been a site member in one screen name or another for well over 20 years.  This ain’t the Avsim I fondly remember.  My 2 cents.

-B

I've been here since AVSIM's beginnings, and it's really no different today than it has ever been...FS9 vs FSX, FSX vs XPlane, P3D vs FSX, etc etc etc.

It's the nature of anonymous or semi-anonymous behavior on the internet.  There will always be those that assert that their world view is vastly superior to that of anyone else.  And some of those people give their opinions in a way that would get them punched right in the mouth in a face-to-face interaction. 

Add to that those people who just lack the self-control to look away--they are drawn like moths to a flame when they see someone write *anything* that disagrees with their own world view.  They let the contention make them miserable, or worse still, they react and pour their own cup of gasoline onto the dumpster fire rather than just moving on to more meaningful discussions that don't annoy them.

The best way to deal with the tedious "Tastes great!--LESS FILLING!!" back-and-forth arguments is to look away.  If you see a thread titled "MSFS2024 looks worse than a 1980 Atari game" you know what you're gonna find there.  If you then go there and find exactly what you knew you would find, a major component of your frustration can easily be located in the nearest mirror...

I still think there are a lot of useful threads on Avsim. The AutoFPS thread (now 160 pages) is a good example. Just fellow simmers discussing in a civilized manner. 

I've also been guilty of lashing out in those 2020vs2024 threads, although I should know better. I probably should avoid reading those threads altogether...

There needs to be a place for people to gripe.  You may want to just frequent "hanger chat" - usually calmer heads prevail there.  

 

Edit - Ha - just noticed this is posted in hanger chat - doh!

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by Tony P

2 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

Add to that those people who just lack the self-control to look away--they are drawn like moths to a flame when they see someone write *anything* that disagrees with their own world view.  They let the contention make them miserable, or worse still, they react and pour their own cup of gasoline onto the dumpster fire rather than just moving on to more meaningful discussions that don't annoy them.

The best way to deal with the tedious "Tastes great!--LESS FILLING!!" back-and-forth arguments is to look away.  If you see a thread titled "MSFS2024 looks worse than a 1980 Atari game" you know what you're gonna find there.  If you then go there and find exactly what you knew you would find, a major component of your frustration can easily be located in the nearest mirror...

Those threads are not the problem (well, I would say seeing multiple new versions every day is annoying, but let's drop that).  The problem is that those same people get into every thread and derail the discussion.  

Those complaint threads can and should exist and be used for exactly that.  

I would politely disagree with your assertion that we can't deal with any differing opinion.  

The problem with the modern internet isn't anonymity, it is that people have figured out that it is easier to shout the other side down and derail discussions rather than to discuss facts.  

It is a proven thing that negativity gets more attention and clicks.  My fear is that any alternative to that gets run off the forum.  

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by kerosene31

14 hours ago, btacon said:

Now?  Bickerfest after bickerfest over MSFS2020 vs MSFS2024.  Always negative, seldom enlightening.  I’ve been a site member in one screen name or another for well over 20 years.  This ain’t the Avsim I fondly remember.  My 2 cents.

-B

Its the internet, it is a place where everyone becomes nasty and doesn't have to be nice to one another, and get this, it gets even worst nowadays in person....so imagine that hiding behind a keyboard!

Nasty comments are everywhere......youtube and the likes....

 

 

Sometimes we need to listen to reasons and respect other opinions. I remember when QW757 came out and myself and @psolk had one big argument that took pages on the thread. We were debating about "Study Level" with the QW757. I looked back and realized I was wrong and made a public apology to him. I couldn't believe how I reacted over something I never created nor putting food on my table. After that, I never debate. I only give reactions to someone I concur too.

What I've noticed is there are a handful of members here who believe that since they have thousands of posts in these forums that others like myself, who post sparingly, have no right to an opinion or the right to make an observation. In their minds, I suspect, we haven't "earned" the right to criticize or ask a legitimate question. There's nothing more condescending when someone who might be new to flight simulation or has can't find an answer elsewhere is berated for simply asking the community for assistance. The typical "Google is your friend," or "read the manual" people should be issued a timeout for being a jerk. 

Having thousands of forum posts doesn't make anyone here king of the castle. And someone with minimal posts who critiques or asks questions doesn't make them a "troll."

My point is that I rarely come here looking for answers anymore because of the few bad apples who seem to have the most posts spend more time belittling others than providing anything constructive. Not to mention the front page is essentially empty of anything useful.

AVSIM was at one time the source for everything flight simulation. News, Reviews, File Downloads, etc. That's all gone. And now all we have is a forum with a handful of "condescending know it all's" that suck the energy out of the site. 

The AVSIM that Tom Allensworth built no longer exists other than in name. 

It seems Avsim has of KARENS hanging around waiting to blow up and try to force their opinion(s) at a moment's notice.  Nuff said....

 

 

10 hours ago, hansb57 said:

Most of the times I asked something on Avsim I got a quick, fiendly and usefull reply.

Therefore this forum is usefull to me. I use it to keep informed and get help sometimes.

Although I have an opinion on a lot of things I mostly keep them to myself.

Why? Because it is just an opinion, I'm not a politician who has to gain anything by voicing my opinion.

I dont care if somebody likes 2020 over 2024, go ahead enjoy what you enjoy.

Do you think it helps to flip your finger or honk your horn and try to educate somebody in traffic?

 

 

 

 

 

And look what people spend on hardware for a silly game! 🤣⬅️😏