On 2/12/2025 at 6:44 PM, lwt1971 said:

Given 2024's ground terrain modelling and how it also simulates collisions based on the 3D details of the terrain and how its 4000x increase detail simulation there also naturally leads to proper simulation of different types of runway conditions (i.e. wet vs dry) and surfaces.. given all this I'd agree with Abrams it's the best overall ground physics modelling in all civilian sims.

As you mentioned wet and dry surfaces: do you actually do your OWN research, or do you just parrot what others say (sorry to be this harsh again)? What about even snowy runway?
A test with the iniBuilds A310. Test set-up: release parking brake, full throttle, accelerate to 70 kts, reduce throttle to 0 and set parking brake (to prevent any influence from differential braking with my pedals)

 

In another post I was accused of claiming that everything is perfect in X-Plane. I haven't seen any proof of this claim, but well ... Because, above all, it's not true. For example, I did tests with failures and found (among other things) that when setting a failure of the left aileron, the right aileron failed. And vice versa.
Failures is also something I would like to test in MSFS 2024.

3 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

As you mentioned wet and dry surfaces: do you actually do your OWN research, or do you just parrot what others say (sorry to be this harsh again)? What about even snowy runway?

First of all I was quoting and showing what Seb spoke about how things work behind the scenes, so if that means "parroting" actual experts' words then I'll gladly parrot Seb's words all day every day 🙂 Speaking of doing your own research, actually try to listen/watch and understand what he says in https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/664166-why-msfs-2024-has-the-best-ground-physics-for-a-flight-sim/page/2/#findComment-5368154 and you might clue in. And use the aircraft that's known to already have 2024 ground handling features like the default C172, ini A330, etc.

When you're done with that, further educate yourself on the opinions of more *actual* experts' thoughts on MSFS 2024's ground handling here: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/664166-why-msfs-2024-has-the-best-ground-physics-for-a-flight-sim/page/4/#findComment-5370752 (hint: you probably won't like it as it counters your narrative and then some).

Sorry to be this harsh again, but given your posting history and propensity to repeatedly post FUD in order to denigrate MSFS given your love for another sim, I never take anything you say seriously (nor bother clicking on your YT channel given you are desperate to get eyes on it.. would advise all others to do same too). That said, Abram's post has obviously got you triggered and it's comical to watch 😁

 

Edited February 13, 20251 yr by lwt1971

17 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

As you mentioned wet and dry surfaces: do you actually do your OWN research, or do you just parrot what others say (sorry to be this harsh again)? What about even snowy runway?

 

What is your video trying to show? Neither runway is "snowy"? I don't see snow on either runway. In the second half of your video, I see snow around the runway, but not snow on the runway.

Do you understand that during winter at airports in the northern hemisphere, the snow is constantly shoveled off the runway, and deicing chemicals are applied on the runway? https://skybrary.aero/articles/runway-de-icing

Hence, the traction on a runway during winter is quite good with the constant shoveling of snow off the runway, and then the application of de-icing chemicals on the runway.

Which country are you from and does it snow at airports in your country? Because I can tell you, as somebody who has driven by car on various roads in Canada during the winter, if the road is de-iced, the traction is quite good.  You can have 5 feet of snow besides the road, but if the road has been de-iced, I have comparable traction on the road during winter as I do in the summer.  

And runways at Canadian airports are constantly de-iced and have snow shoveled off of it.

 

Edited February 14, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

14 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

First of all I was quoting and showing what Seb spoke about how things work behind the scenes, so if that means "parroting" actual experts' words then I'll gladly parrot Seb's words all day every day 🙂 Speaking of doing your own research, actually try to listen/watch and understand what he says in https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/664166-why-msfs-2024-has-the-best-ground-physics-for-a-flight-sim/page/2/#findComment-5368154 and you might clue in. And use the aircraft that's known to already have 2024 ground handling features like the default C172, ini A330, etc.

When you're done with that, further educate yourself on the opinions of more *actual* experts' thoughts on MSFS 2024's ground handling here: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/664166-why-msfs-2024-has-the-best-ground-physics-for-a-flight-sim/page/4/#findComment-5370752 (hint: you probably won't like it as it counters your narrative and then some).

Sorry to be this harsh again, but given your posting history and propensity to repeatedly post FUD in order to denigrate MSFS given your love for another sim, I never take anything you say seriously (nor bother clicking on your YT channel given you are desperate to get eyes on it.. would advise all others to do same too). That said, Abram's post has obviously got you triggered and it's comical to watch 😁

 

I see a ‘kill the messenger (not the real culprit)’ mentality here all the time. First call someone a name, and don't test it yourself.
Again - do you do tests yourself or do you just collect (hundreds of) quotes of what you call 'experts'? Honestly - I really (really, really, really) encourage you to do tests yourself if you don't believe it (in this case the braking distance) and become an expert yourself.
BTW, I have tested the C172 and A330, but please do it yourself too and share your results. Then we can continue talking.

It was said elsewhere that the C172 in MSFS 2024 already has the new ground physics (introduced six months or a year ago) and therefore behaves correctly in crosswinds. But why then did the C172 already behave correctly in crosswinds 1.5 years ago in MSFS 2020 (see below)?

 

 

42 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

What is your video trying to show? Neither runway is "snowy"? I don't see snow on either runway. In the second half of your video, I see snow around the runway, but not snow on the runway.

Do you understand that during winter at airports in the northern hemisphere, the snow is constantly shoveled off the runway, and deicing chemicals are applied on the runway? https://skybrary.aero/articles/runway-de-icing

Hence, the traction on a runway during winter is quite good with the constant shoveling of snow off the runway, and then the application of de-icing chemicals on the runway.

Which country are you from and does it snow at airports in your country? Because I can tell you, as somebody who has driven by car on various roads in Canada during the winter, if the road is de-iced, the traction is quite good.  You can have 5 feet of snow besides the road, but if the road has been de-iced, I have comparable traction on the road during winter as I do in the summer.  

And runways at Canadian airports are constantly de-iced and have snow shoveled off of it.

 

You are aware that a simulator (and MSFS 2024 is a simulator, right 😁?) is used, not only but also, for testing even unusual and edge cases, which are too dangerous/expensive in real life?
Test pilots also fly manoeuvres which are not used in 'daily business'. You could argue why test pilots do that? Such situations don't occur usually, so it doesn't make sense to fly extreme manoeuvres.

BTW: Why do the engines blow away snow when there is none?

Edited February 14, 20251 yr by flying_carpet

1 minute ago, flying_carpet said:

You are aware that a simulator (and MSFS 2024 is a simulator, right 😁?) is used, not only but also, for testing even unusual and edge cases, which are too dangerous/expensive in real life?
Test pilots also fly manoeuvres which are not used in 'daily business'. You could argue why test pilots do that? Such situations don't occur usually, so it doesn't make sense to fly extreme manoeuvres.

Yes, but is your video trying to show that the plane is stopping the same distance on the runway in the first half of the video where there is no snow, versus the second half of the video where there is snow around the runway, but not snow on the runway?

I'm telling you that the stopping distance in conditions where there is snow around the runway, but no snow on the runway, would be comparable to dry summer conditions.  Like I said, in Canada, the runways are constantly de-iced and snow is constantly shoveled off of the runways.  So that second of your video, where there is no snow on the runway, the stopping distance should be comparable to the first half of the video, which it appears to be.

Like I said, while I am not a real life pilot, I have a lot of winter driving experience in Canada. Once the roads have been de-iced and snow has been shoveled off the roads, the traction is quite good.  You can have 5 feet of snow besides the road during winter, but the traction on the road is quite good, provided it has been properly de-iced, and the snow has been shoveled off the road (which is the case at airport runways across Canada during the winter).

17 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Yes, but is your video trying to show that the plane is stopping the same distance on the runway in the first half of the video where there is no snow, versus the second half of the video where there is snow around the runway, but not snow on the runway?

 

23 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

BTW: Why do the engines blow away snow when there is none?

 

9 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

BTW: Why do the engines blow away snow when there is none?

Why are you changing the subject from stopping distance to engines blowing snow? You're moving the goal posts. Your Youtube video is titled "braking distance on dry and snowy runway" and I have been talking about the stopping distance (what you call braking distance) the whole time.

Edited February 14, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

32 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Why are you changing the subject from stopping distance to engines blowing snow?

quite simple really, noticed how they didn’t bother replying to Matt or even when they asked how to tune the ground model themselves, conveniently ignored my suggestion to the direct SDK?

Notice how when their sad attempt of a thread they made didn’t go their way, they figured they’d try and revive this one to get some semblance of recognition while still using the same talking points ignoring everything they’ve been told. AGAIN might I add

It’s amazing to me this troll is allowed to just stir the point wherever they want cause I’m not really see any kind of action from the mods.
@flying_carpet has not and clearly doesn’t plan to ever discuss these subject matters in good faith.

Edited February 14, 20251 yr by Lucky38i

It's not MY job to fix broken planes in the flight_model.cfg.

 

57 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

... ignoring everything they’ve been told. AGAIN might I add

I told you guys repeatedly: do your OWN tests. As I said above, I have tested the 'new and phantastic' C172 and also the A330 under certain conditions and can tell you: there are a few unpleasant surprises. Be prepared.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Why are you changing the subject from stopping distance to engines blowing snow? You're moving the goal posts. Your Youtube video is titled "braking distance on dry and snowy runway" and I have been talking about the stopping distance (what you call braking distance) the whole time.

YOU (not me changed) the subject and said that there is no snow on the runway. And again ...

2 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Why do the engines blow away snow when there is none?

So, what is correct? Snow/no snow on the runway and/or snow blown away by the engines? Questions upon questions.

13 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

YOU (not me changed) the subject and said that there is no snow on the runway. And again ...

It doesn't look like much snow on the runway at the 3:08 mark?

 

Quote

or snow blown away by the engines

Are you talking about the exhaust behind the engine in your video?  It appears in your video that MSFS is modelling exhaust condensation from the plane, which appears more visible in winter than in the summer. In winter, the exhaust becomes way more visible because of condensation: https://www.cars.com/articles/why-do-car-exhausts-smoke-in-cold-weather-473956/

Is that what you are referring to as snow being blown away by the engines?

Edited February 14, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

It doesn't look like much snow on the runway at the 3:08 mark?

 

 

2 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Why do the engines blow away snow when there is none?

 

43 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Why do the engines blow away snow when there is none?

I just replied to you above. Are you talking about the exhaust behind the engine in your video?  It appears in your video that MSFS 2024 is modelling exhaust condensation from the plane, which appears more visible in winter than in the summer. In winter, the exhaust becomes way more visible because of condensation: https://www.cars.com/articles/why-do-car-exhausts-smoke-in-cold-weather-473956/.

Is that what you are referring to as snow being blown away by the engines?

Edited February 14, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

28 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Why do the engines blow away snow when there is none?

 

Here is the exhaust condensation from a plane on takeoff in cold weather in real life:

https://i.sstatic.net/AyLnu.gif

Is that what you are referring to by the engines blowing away snow in your video?

Edited February 14, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

51 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

It's not MY job to fix broken planes in the flight_model.cfg.

You're right, it's not. You also can't use it as a basis on the capabilities of the sim. If I go and made a simplistic flight model in xplane it will exhibit the same issues, that doesn't make xplane a bad sim. It also most definitely a bad faith argument.

 

54 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

told you guys repeatedly: do your OWN tests.

Why? You're the one who opened the thread, you're also the doing inconsistent testing.

So, you go find aircraft that fully utilizes the new ground contact model and perform your "tests" and present the results because you're the one making the accusations, why does anyone need to do your homework for you?

Otherwise you're tests are pointless because you haven't confirmed whether they're using the new ground contact model, no one here should be responsible for finding that out, you are.