Aerobus in USA

[Guest fsxmissionguy]

Dirk,I was searching for some context. As I said, knowing that there are x numbers of Airbus in the air doesn't really tell you anything unless you know how that compares to the numbers of Boeing craft flying.Unfortunately, the data on FlightAware isn't formatted in a way that makes counting the total number of aircraft by a given manufacturer flying at any given moment (at least in a convenient way.)That's the context I'm looking for ... a comparison by manufacturer, specifically how many Airbus are flying on a given day in the US and Canada and how that compares to the number of Boeing craft flying on a given day in the US and Canada.I'm just curious. And, I think that's relevant to the discussion at hand. My theory is that there are 10x more Boeing craft in the air, and that Airbus hasn't made significant gains in the market for aircraft in the US and Canada beyond their initial introduction numbers that were due mostly to timing (and not quality comparisons.)I could be wrong, that's why I'm hunting for that data.Does anyone have that contextual data?Cheers,

[Guest Tinkan]

Really? http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/

[Guest fsxmissionguy]

Drew,Yes, I'm aware that you can sort by aircraft type. That's different than filtering by manufacturer. This was exactly my point. That site makes it difficult to do an Airbus vs. Boeing count.It's possible if you start adding up numbers. It's also not convenient.Cheers,

[Guest Eek]

>Drew,>>Yes, I'm aware that you can sort by aircraft type. That's>different than filtering by manufacturer. This was exactly my>point. That site makes it difficult to do an Airbus vs. Boeing>count.>>It's possible if you start adding up numbers. It's also not>convenient.>>Cheers,How hard can it be? I just did it in less than 5 minutes.Boeing 1698Airbus 666McDonnell Douglas 312 (in case you want to count them, also.)i stopped counting when I got to aircraft types with only 1 in the air. This was 1030pm East Coast time.EwingKATLAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store, not a government agency.MSI K8N Neo2 PlatinumAMD Opteron 185 2.6 Ghz Dual Core2GB Kingston HyperX (2X1GB) Dual Channel DDR 2-3-2-6 @ 1TXFX nVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS 256MB DDR3 AGPSound Blaster Audigy LSSilverStone Decathlon 750W +12v@60A +5v@30AFS9.1 on WinXPPro (SP1)

[Dirk98 354]

>>Drew,>>>>Yes, I'm aware that you can sort by aircraft type. That's>>different than filtering by manufacturer. This was exactly>my>>point. That site makes it difficult to do an Airbus vs.>Boeing>>count.>>>>It's possible if you start adding up numbers. It's also not>>convenient.>>>>Cheers,>>How hard can it be? I just did it in less than 5 minutes.>>Boeing 1698>Airbus 666>McDonnell Douglas 312 (in case you want to count them, also.)>>>i stopped counting when I got to aircraft types with only 1 in>the air. This was 1030pm East Coast time.>Yeh, and that was exactly my point. Wasn't too hard to get that context for my surpise. The ratio of A320 vs. B737 and B757 looks really impressive, Never thought there were so many in US. Looks like a free market yet with all the understandable protectionism. :)Thanks Eek.

[ahuimanu 50]

If your protectionism claim were entirely true, then the presence of 747-400s would be higher among major US and Canada based carriers. Instead, notice the number of a33x planes that Northwest and US Air operates.The decision for airbus for many carriers extends beyond timing and introductory sweetheart buys. Each carrier fancies that it has some angle or niche, and their key city pairs from hub to other major national and international markets comprises a unique tasking to which one aircraft may be better than the other. Even if the aircraft are fairly equal, political and economic influences situated in the time of the purchase decision is a factor as well.In support of MissionGuy's theory, we can't assume that all of the Arbuses on flight aware are North American operators, this is especially true of any B744, B77x, A33x and A34x entries you see. However, anything showing up in the A32x family is likely a North American operation.However, the 10x figure is likely not true, this is especially evident when you take regional jets into account.Here's whats poking around the sky at Saturday 07:46AM EDT, June 28th, 2008:17.08% 290 Airbus13.55% 230 CanadaAir14.37% 244 Embraer43.76% 743 Boeing11.25% 191 Boeing/McDonnellDouglas100.00% 1698 Since Boeing is an American company and since the word "protectionism" has been brandished in this discussion, let's consider market share:17% of the aircraft being tracked are Airbus, the majority of which are in the A32x family. While 44% are true Boeing aircraft, the Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas combo puts the American manufacturer at 55% of the commerical aircraft airborne at this early hour. Of course, I should take a read of this later in the day, but these ratios are worth considering at any point.I'll lump CanadaAir as "foreign" since Boeing v. Airbus seems to be the flavor of this discussion. We also have to be careful as all these Boeings are not necessarily American operators.So if I rework the numbers to consider only short-to-medium range, non-RJ aircraft, we see this:32.54% 191 A320x41.57% 244 B737x25.89% 152 McDonnell-Douglas DC9x,MD8x,MD9x100.00% 587 So, yes, the American-manufactured aircraft, at this early hour on a saturday, comprise 2/3rds of what's aloft, but the airbus figure isn't quite 10% either.In the end, I would agree that it is hard to conclusively determine the exact nature of North-american-registered aircraft based on flightaware's data. What of aircraft in storage? We also can't capture the entire fleet from this snapshot data. If we were paying for longitudinal data from flight-aware we might be able to compile a more complete picture.

[Guest fsxmissionguy]

Well, considering that the data lives on a computer, and I'm using a computer, seems like a well-designed site would do that math for me, since that's what computers are designed to do ... you know, math.It took about 5 minutes for you to do it. That's an eternity in today's competitive marketplace. I never said it couldn't be done, I said that the site was poorly designed to do it. It's designed to show you numbers by aircraft model, not aircraft manufacturer, when it could easily be designed to do both.If you had to stop for five minutes every time you wanted to compare that data meaningfully (and, you do know what I mean by meaningfully, don't you?) well ... that would take forever, right?But, since you did it, you would see that (at least during your snapshot period) Boeing has a 3-1 advantage in the US and Canadian market over Airbus and that Airbus isn't continuing to sell well into this market beyond its initial orders.I suspect that's because Boeing delivers a better product.Cheers,

[Dirk98 354]

>If your protectionism claim were entirely true...My protectionism claim, did I really claim anything? Otherwise interesting info, thanks.

[Dirk98 354]

>Well, considering that the data lives on a computer, and I'm>using a computer, seems like a well-designed site would do>that math for me, since that's what computers are designed to>do ... you know, math.>>It took about 5 minutes for you to do it. That's an eternity>in today's competitive marketplace. I never said it couldn't>be done, I said that the site was poorly designed to do it.>It's designed to show you numbers by aircraft model, not>aircraft manufacturer, when it could easily be designed to do>both.>>If you had to stop for five minutes every time you wanted to>compare that data meaningfully (and, you do know what I mean>by meaningfully, don't you?) well ... that would take forever,>right?>>But, since you did it, you would see that (at least during>your snapshot period) Boeing has a 3-1 advantage in the US and>Canadian market over Airbus and that Airbus isn't continuing>to sell well into this market beyond its initial orders.>>I suspect that's because Boeing delivers a better product.>>Cheers,What's your point in respect to the question asked in this thread? You got any data you could share or at least any comments regarding number of Airbus in NA?Cheers,Dirk.

[Guest Eek]

>Well, considering that the data lives on a computer, and I'm>using a computer, seems like a well-designed site would do>that math for me, since that's what computers are designed to>do ... you know, math.Since you're on a computer, you could, you know, send them an email and ask them to add that feature. It probably never occured to them that anyone would be interested in that type of data.>It took about 5 minutes for you to do it. That's an eternity>in today's competitive marketplace. I never said it couldn't>be done, I said that the site was poorly designed to do it.>It's designed to show you numbers by aircraft model, not>aircraft manufacturer, when it could easily be designed to do>both.Competitive marketplace? I wasn't aware they had any competition. Since most of it's customers are just there for fun, and for free, I really don't see your point. Yes, it took about 5 minutes. I'll bet you spent more time than that typing your post.>If you had to stop for five minutes every time you wanted to>compare that data meaningfully (and, you do know what I mean>by meaningfully, don't you?) well ... that would take forever,>right?No. It took 5 minutes to compile the data that I wasn't really interested in until you brought it up. As to whether it's meaningful depends on who's looking at it. I think it's interesting, but not necessarily meaningful.>But, since you did it, you would see that (at least during>your snapshot period) Boeing has a 3-1 advantage in the US and>Canadian market over Airbus and that Airbus isn't continuing>to sell well into this market beyond its initial orders.As someone mentioned above, many aircraft over the US aren't American, so it really isn't a good indicator of market share. If you want to know that sort of information, you should probably be looking for a financial web site, not an aviation enthusiast website.EwingKATLAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store, not a government agency.MSI K8N Neo2 PlatinumAMD Opteron 185 2.6 Ghz Dual Core2GB Kingston HyperX (2X1GB) Dual Channel DDR 2-3-2-6 @ 1TXFX nVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS 256MB DDR3 AGPSound Blaster Audigy LSSilverStone Decathlon 750W +12v@60A +5v@30AFS9.1 on WinXPPro (SP1)