Notice to developers: no 2D cockpit - no sale to me...

[Guest UlfB]

>There are shortcut 3D views in VC (or at least available). >They are called camera views and for example in the default>Maule you can get a view of just the radios or of the switches>or of the fuel handle (although in the maule the 3D fuel>handle does not work properly). >>Most 3D pits come with multiple camera views (just press the A>key to cycle through them, or right click and choose the exact>view wanted). I always add HIDDEN_FROM_CYCLE or what ever>that line is so I only get the views I want with the A key.>With a lot of acft, one view is the FO position.>>You can also with camera views turn off head latency for each>view (I have it turned off completely). I never use the 2D>views anymore and they are no longer in my "S" button cycle.>>YMMV,>Phill I know, I know. My point is that I have a big airliner from a very respected 3PD where there are too few camera views defined for the VC cockpit. If I didn't have access to the 2D popup panels, the aircraft would be very difficult to handle.But how do I undock a VC camera view and move it to my second monitor?I still prefer 2D panel and 2D popup panels for advanced airliners. Makes them much easier to handle.I would like to see somebody handle a 747-200 with a engine failure during approach in a VC without camera views covering the flight engineers panels ;-)Ulf B

[Dirk98 354]

Ulf, I think no one here is against 2D panels that you can invoke or fix on your multiple screens, and they will live I think. But the original MSFS's 2D cockpit becomes really redundant and not "realistic" looks wise. And the new fixed 3D cameras can give you a few convenient fixed aspects on the main panel free of designer's distortion, lol. You can conveniently switch to the required aspect you need instead with 'a' or 'shift+a' buttons on your joystick. Or still invoke panels that you need.

[Guest UlfB]

>Ulf, I think no one here is against 2D panels that you can>invoke or fix on your multiple screens, and they will live I>think. But the original MSFS's 2D cockpit becomes really>redundant and not "realistic" looks wise. And the new fixed 3D>cameras can give you a few convenient fixed aspects on the>main panel free of designer's distortion, lol. You can>conveniently switch to the required aspect you need instead>with 'a' or 'shift+a' buttons on your joystick. Or still>invoke panels that you need.I know, I know, I know, I know that I can use the cycle the VC predefined views. That's not a problem. But please tell me how I undock a VC camera view and move it to my second monitor?Ulf B

[Guest santiagoluib3]

>fs2000 and that Cessna 2d panel stretched across the screen>put me right off. I just couldn't get any sense of 'being>there' from what looked like a cardboard cut out and still>have problems with 2d panels for the same reason now.I'm with you on this. And oh, since the birth of FSAA, those awful jagged edges around a 2D panel annoys me. Anti-Aliasing won't save it for 2D. The bigger your monitor is, the more pronounced they are. And with today's widescreen LCDs they streeetch some more to fit right in. I do however agree to the fact the 2D panels have usefulness. I occasionally pop them up. Flying Jumbos, I tend to use the 2D panels when operating those little buttons, switches, dials that can be otherwise difficult to operate on a VC. But for the joy ride, or simply panning around enjoying the view, nothing beats VC for me. And Track-IR sealed it. I wish future add-ons will have the same VC quality the likes of RealAir aircraft.

[Guest santiagoluib3]

RealAir did a good setup on this too. I like the way they cycle the VC views on their Citabria/Scout ACs with A, Shift-A keys. Spot-ON for such an airplane.

[Mace 1,909]

>Rhett, You say: "Anyone with a paint program, a text editor,>and a set of gauges can make a 2D panel.">>It's a pretty bold statement to say the least. Wow. I might>just reconsider my career then if this is the case. :-)>Well, it's a truism. I figured some people may not like that statement, but it's a fact. In fact you bear my point out in your post.>1) "A set of gauges" is not a "tool". They have to be>programmed, and the graphics have to be generated. This all>takes many hours of work.>If you're making a VC, you have to do the gauges IN ADDITION to what you'd do for a 2D panel. >Then you say this:"But try making a VC with those tools.">>2) Most gauges you see in 2D panels, are actually used in the>VC as well, albeit a derivative in many instances, but from a>programming standpoint it is the same code, and most of the>time the same graphics being used.>My point exactly. For the VC, you have to do all of the gauge work PLUS you have to do the gmax work. Ergo, ipso, facto: VC is more work to design than a 2D. >If it was so easy to make 2D panels as you think, many of the>devs I know would be in deep trouble ;-)>Guess they're in deep trouble then.Like I said, mostly these days, it's a design choice.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

[Mace 1,909]

>>>Anyone with a paint program, a>>text editor, and a set of gauges can make a 2D panel.>>>Really? All this time I thought it took only a magic wand.>>Amazing>>JimSure, that's it, a magic wand. What was I thinking.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

[FalconAF 213]

Using the "click spots" on VC panels is easy with the TrackIR. It's actually easier than switching back and forth between the VC and the 2D panels.Just designate a button on your joystick/yoke for the "pause" ("disable"?) function of the Track IR. Set it to "toggle" the function on/off with subsequent button pushes. Then move your head anywhere you need to get "up close and personal" with what you want to click on in the VC. Hit the button on your joystick/yoke, and all movement of the panel ceases, despite any head movements you make with the TrackIR. Make your panel "clicks", then hit the joystick/yoke button again. TrackIR panel movements start again. This also prevents the problem of using a 2D or VC panel "zoomed out", where the click spots on the panel may "disappear" because of your zoom setting. You can zoom out a VC panel to the point where you like it, which may cause the click spots to not be there anymore. But by simply moving your head closer to the monitor, you can make those click spots work again.Combine the above with a button on your joystick/yoke to "recenter" the TrackIR, and you can always get into any comfortable position in your chair with the panel displayed just the way you want it. This works great for long flight where I may want to "kick back" in my chair for a while, yet still maintain a "normal" view of the VC panel on my monitor.FalconAF

[Guest UlfB]

>It's actually easier than switching back and forth>between the VC and the 2D panels.Is toggling TrackIR easier than having 2D popup panels on my second monitor open and ready during the whole flight? You obviously have never used a second monitor in FS. It's very convenient.Ulf B

[Guest aeroworx]

It is apparent from your response that you don't understand the development process. I'd still like to know where you are going to find these "gauge sets" you speak of. Good luck. Henning

[phillroath 1]

Here's a link to a forum thread that talks about this. There are section in camera.cfg files and aircraft.cfg files.http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...75818&mode=fullPhill

[phillroath 1]

I have made additional camera views (mostly via the copy and modify methodology) to get just what I want but I still have at least one pop-up in all my aircraft, Shift-3 for the FSX GPS gauge.I see you need to move to a second monitor and that's where the problems come in, I suppose. I don't use a second monitor and have no guess how that can be done.Phill

[jrhoads 6]

>Sure, that's it, a magic wand. What was I thinking.You were not thinking and I believe it shows. And it is obvious you do not have any experience at creating commercial level simulations or you would not be talking the nonsense that you are. I try not to talk about things I know nothing about. maybe you should try the same. Jim

[yellowjack 28]

>>It's actually easier than switching back and forth>>between the VC and the 2D panels.>>Is toggling TrackIR easier than having 2D popup panels on my>second monitor open and ready during the whole flight? You>obviously have never used a second monitor in FS. It's very>convenient.>>Ulf B> Interesting, I have two monitors but with FSX I now switch the second monitor off before starting FSX. As far as the pop ups go I chose to fly those aircraft where you click on an instrument in the VC view and it pops up, after I have finished with it a click on the enlarged instrument and it disappears. For me this is a much better method than moving the pop ups to a second monitor and saves performance by not splitting my video ram between two 19" monitors running at 1280 x 1024. Although I used two monitors with FS9 I found that whilst having the second monitor covered in pop ups was conveinient it spoiled my immersion because it looked unrealistic. In FSX I find the combination of trackir and click on/off pop ups very useful, sort of the best of both worlds. I no longer have to remember that it is SHF + number for a particular instrument enlargement especially as these tended to be mapped differently for each aircraft. However, I will be first to admit that I don't fly any aircraft with a flight engineer's seat, not that there are many of those left. It's a case of horses for courses I guess.

[Mace 1,909]

It is also obvious that you do not know all the panel work I've done over the years.What you REALLY didn't like was my simplification of the process. Why not simply say that, and be done with it. You would actually be making a substantive point, then. Grant you, I was not attempting to minimize the work involved in the overall process, which can be extensive.I know that you know the work involved, too.It's like saying all there is to a 3D object is gmax and a paint program. Of course, we all know, it's not that simple. But the basic tools are those--gmax and a paint program.Same thing with a 2D panelBut to say I know nothing about it, is not knowing me. Also saying that I speak of things I know nothing about, is also not knowing me.This is pretty ridiculous to prattle on about, and I won't do it anymore.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT