1 hour ago, GoranM said:

(I can’t believe this is the start of an argument over 3 letters. But it’s the MSFS forum, so anything is possible)

Doesn't this kind of cattiness conflict with your recent lamentations about toxicity from some corners of the community?

You might have missed it above, but you were asked to back up your claim that people on this forum had been saying commercial pilots got their training from MSFS. Can you do that?

21 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

Doesn't this kind of cattiness conflict with your recent lamentations about toxicity from some corners of the community?

No.

21 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

You might have missed it above, but you were asked to back up your claim that people on this forum had been saying commercial pilots got their training from MSFS.

I Noticed.  But I never, EVER said people here claimed professional pilots got their training from MSFS.  Not even close.  Please don't misquote me.

21 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

Can you do that?

Yes.  Will I take time out of my day, a Sunday no less, to find forum posts from the past to prove something I saw?  No.  In such cases, I simply say believe it or don't.

Also, there have been people in here claiming the CFD in MSFS is AS GOOD AS real world flight dynamics.  To the point they put paramount importance on the CFD physics extending out towards mountains, 10 miles away, that affect the aircraft.  And let's not forget the pebbles and rocks on the runway that increase the realism.  That one made me smile.  Even games like Battlefield 5 have that.  

I know you want an argument.  But you won't find it with me.  Do something with your Sunday, and stop trying to stir up an argument that isn't there.  7 pages worth of debates over something so trivial.

Edited June 15, 2025Jun 15 by GoranM

6 hours ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

Maybe, someday there will be an awesome Twin Otter.

dd

...but I like square wheels...😉

7 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

AI is wrong LOL Chief Flight Instructor is also CFI LOL 

Must admit; in all the literature I've ever read, a CFI is a Chief Flying Instructor....but I'm merely a passenger and an armchair pilot...

Just now, DD_Arthur said:

Must admit; in all the literature I've ever read, a CFI is a Chief Flying Instructor....but I'm merely a passenger and an armchair pilot...

Some people just want to argue with and mock someone who doesn't treat MSFS as their primary flight sim.  

Thankfully, they're in the minority.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

I’m confused. I went to a privately owned and run flight school to get my PPL. Are you acknowledging the title of CFI as chief flight instructor or not?

(I can’t believe this is the start of an argument over 3 letters. But it’s the MSFS forum, so anything is possible)

Goran,

CFI is commonly referred as Certified Flight Instructor.   was under impression that this universal thing. In my experience, Chief Instructor is a position which usually occupied to the most experienced  CFI . I'be been flying for over 20 years yet I never heard that abbreviation CFI which would refer "Chief Flying Instructor". Obviously I'm wrong because I didn't fly in Canada LOL That why I was very confused when I saw other interpretation of CFI. 

Here is US we have two kinds of training. One which conducted in flight schools under FAA part 141 and the one that conducted by independent instructors FAA Part 61 . Flight schools develop their own but FAA approved training syllabus consisted. It's kind  of faster track learning with stage checks . Those stage checks are conducted by designated Chief Pilot while student pilot are trained by regular flight instructor. In contrast, Part 61 is for independent flight instructors who follow FAA requirement and conduct training from beginning to the end (hopefully). There are pro and cons in each type of training. I've done both.

In US terms think of Part 141 as "school" and Part 61 as "personal trainer". In flight school you don't get to choose flight instructor because school assign them to you. However, if you hire independent flight instructor you can "fire"  one you don't like and shop around for another LOL

Just a counter example:  PPL is commonly refer as Private Pilot License around the world and here in US as well. However, technically speaking in US is there is not such thing Private Pilot License because it's Private Pilot Certificate! LOL Yet people use it universally use and no one have misunderstanding. 

Finally, I don't know why there is certified flight instructor but no certified private pilot or certified airline transport pilot. My guess is because here in US almost all certificates last forever. All  pilot needs to exercise a privilege is appropriate medical certificate and recent pilot experience. However, two certificates need to be renewed ATP and CFI. If lapsed I believe ATP simply downgraded in commercial certificate. Flight Instructor certificate, however is good only for two years, and if it lapsed, it will be completely lost. Meaning person who lost CFI will have to start all over again to get it back!

12 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Please don't misquote me.

What did you mean by saying people on this forum had been claiming that very thing in reply to someone saying it's unimaginable for a commercial pilot to claim that?

14 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Yes.  Will I take time out of my day, a Sunday no less, to find forum posts from the past to prove something I saw?  No.  In such cases, I simply say believe it or don't.

Actually, in the past, you've posted screenshots from the (as you described it) very big folder you keep of daft things other people say. No screenshots for this occasion? 

7 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Thankfully, they're in the minority.

You're right. I mean, look at me; MSFS isn't my primary flight sim. It's my only flight sim!

....I'll get me coat...

10 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Must admit; in all the literature I've ever read, a CFI is a Chief Flying Instructor....but I'm merely a passenger and an armchair pilot...

My take is if there Chief Flying Instructor there must be Chief Not fFying instructor as well LOL

Just now, sd_flyer said:

My take is if there Chief Flying Instructor there must be Chief Not fFying instructor as well LOL

In my experience that position would be occupied by the Chief Flying Instructor's wife...🙃

1 minute ago, sd_flyer said:

CFI is commonly referred as Certified Flight Instructor.   was under impression that this universal thing.

That's fine.  Certified Flight Instructor is something I never heard of back when I was flying.  If you came to me with that acronym, I'd ask questions about it.  Not respond with a "LOL".

2 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

In my experience, Chief Instructor is a position which usually occupied to the most experienced  CFI .

It likely was in my case.  Rene, my CFI, owned the airfield and the flying school I went to.  I asked him what he paid for it.  $AUD20 million.  And he could only buy it and have it all established under the conditions that CASA (Australia's FAA) approved his qualifications as a CFI.

4 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Here is US we have two kinds of training. One which conducted in flight schools under FAA part 141 and the one that conducted by independent instructors FAA Part 61 .

I don't know about current conditions here, but when I was flying, we could go all the way to a CPL at a flying school.  In most cases, an ATPL could be taken as an apprenticeship with an airline.

9 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Finally, I don't know why there is certified flight instructor but no certified private pilot or certified airline transport pilot. My guess is because here in US almost all certificates last forever. All  pilot needs to exercise a privilege is appropriate medical certificate and recent pilot experience. However, two certificates need to be renewed ATP and CFI. If lapsed I believe ATP simply downgraded in commercial certificate. Flight Instructor certificate, however is good only for two years, and if it lapsed, it will be completely lost. Meaning person who lost CFI will have to start all over again to get it back!

I understand your points, and it's all good.  

It's just your approach that people can find a bit confronting or insulting.  Especially in a text based forum, where all context is lost.

14 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

What did you mean by saying people on this forum had been claiming that very thing in reply to someone saying it's unimaginable for a commercial pilot to claim that?

It's Sunday.  And where I am, there's not a cloud in the sky, and I'm sitting outside, enjoying my day and spending time with my daughter.  Like I said.  Believe it or don't.  

14 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

Actually, in the past, you've posted screenshots from the (as you described it) very big folder you keep of daft things other people say. No screenshots for this occasion? 

Maybe I do.  Again, it's Sunday.  And I'm taking my first day off in 3 months from working on TBM updates.  I'm not going to go digging around forum posts and screenshots.

If you want to feel like you've won an argument, that's fine.  You've won.  I don't even know why you're replying.  You were never in this conversation to begin with.  No one tagged you.

Please, do something with your Sunday.  Even if it is just loading up MSFS and enjoying it.

Edited June 15, 2025Jun 15 by GoranM

2 minutes ago, GoranM said:

That's fine.  Certified Flight Instructor is something I never heard of back when I was flying.  If you came to me with that acronym, I'd ask questions about it.  Not respond with a "LOL".

It likely was in my case.  Rene, my CFI, owned the airfield and the flying school I went to.  I asked him what he paid for it.  $AUD20 million.  And he could only buy it and have it all established under the conditions that CASA (Australia's FAA) approved his qualifications as a CFI.

I don't know about current conditions here, but when I was flying, we could go all the way to a CPL at a flying school.  In most cases, an ATPL could be taken as an apprenticeship with an airline.

I understand your points, and it's all good.  

It's just your approach that people can find a bit confronting or insulting.  Especially in a text based forum, where all context is lost.

Because my certificate was not issued by  CASA, 15 years ago I was privileged  to rent a flight instructor and Warrior in Melbourne!  The guy was very cool  and let me flight by myself all along! 

22 hours ago, GoranM said:

And I'm not disagreeing with you.  But it needs to be treated as a SUPPLEMENT.  If you, or anyone else considers it a primary source of information, then that's on you.  If you want to debate the point with me, then clarify whether or not you agree with me on that point, then we can discuss further.

And by the way, the tomato sheds (greenhouses for tomatoes), that are used as a key landmark at my local airport when entering a circuit, where I started flying, STILL aren't in any flight sim, after 27 years of looking for them.  Not in X-Plane.  Not in MSFS 2020.  Not in any iteration of either flight sim since the early 1990's.  

Common sense would tell anyone that those tomato sheds are in no way, an isolated case.

 

The topic and my original post is about MSFS being used to train flight students / expand their knowledge base. 

Moving the goal post about "primary source of information" or "counting towards hours" has nothing to do with the "fact" that MSFS is being used to train flight students, particularly for navigation as MSFS has landmarks / real world visuals. No other sim has that level of detail.

Just now, OverTheEDJ said:

The topic and my original post is about MSFS being used to train flight students / expand their knowledge base. 

Moving the goal post about "primary source of information" or "counting towards hours" has nothing to do with the "fact" that MSFS is being used to train flight students, particularly for navigation as MSFS has landmarks / real world visuals. No other sim has that level of detail.

Ok, great!

👍