What Tropical Storm?

[Geofa 108]

Beechcraft Safety communiques 147 and 192 state for Beech Baron's:"The test program confirms (for the Beech Baron):1. Recovery from a developed spin in a multi-engine airplane is, for a variety of reasons, unpredictable;it is possible, especially when the airplane is stalled under asymmetric power, to encounter a spinfrom which recovery cannot be effected. The greater the asymmetric thrust and the longer it isallowed to continue, the greater the change that an unrecoverable spin could be encountered."Note the word "unpredictable". Seems that would be kind of hard to program unpredictable "realistically" as you mention....and... since only a few test pilots (and a few unlucky ones that probably didn't survive) truly know what "realistic" is it would be quite difficult.Also from these documents" only qualified test pilots performing test manuevers should spin these aircraft"...it also mentions due to the unpredictable effects that some recoveries from the test spins (and there were only 97 attempted)were only accomplished by parachute.It also states that "normal" category aircraft are prohibited from spins by the Faa. How many default Msfs aircraft are normal category? So it seems reasonable to me for normal category aircraft that flying outside the envelope and thus programming for one doing that aspect would be a waste for all the above reasons. For aerobatic and rated aircraft that are designed to fly outside normal envelopes I would agree.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest JIMJAM]

I would rather the developers program overstress and destroy the aircraft rather than have it flop around and do physics defying maneuvers. I think most of us who are regulars at these forums strive for some semblance of realism.One of the most crucial is to fly the aircraft and interact within the virtual sim world as you would in the real world.Accept the maniac ai pilots, the 3 stooges ran ATC,cartoonish FSX graphics,occassional CTD and you can have a decent virtual aviation world in which to fly. You gotta remeber we are a small but vocal % of sim flyers.This is how 3/4 of how my family,freinds, and co-workers react when I hand over the joystick to them.1st off, there is one speed. Wide A** open.Second.Question- "Wheres the dam guns?"" You Cant shot nothing?"as they frantically press the trigger button.And third. With nothing to shoot or blow up, they quickly bore and ask,"Got a beer?"

[Geofa 108]

Totally agree with your last paragraph. That is why imho many sims come and go but fs stays-while it is never everything to everybody it gives enough to everyone for them to keep coming back-though never completely happy.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[ccaughie 0]

>>> Why Oh why do some insist on flying "outside the normal>envelope"?>>I don't, but it would be nice if the aircraft reacted>semi-realistically when you did. :)I agree partially - I don't particularly care if it reacts realistically (as Geofa says this is a. unpredictable and b. not feasible to verify due to lack of real world data), but it would be good if it at least simulated the severity of the consequences. In other words, if your mistake would terminate your flight in real life, it should terminate your flight in FS. At least on the "realistic" difficulty setting.I can understand that this would be less useful for trained pilots who know where the boundaries are and instinctively stay within them, but for people like me who have limited flight experience it would help us to understand not only what the rules are, but why they are what they are. For example I learned recently that you're not supposed to touch down in a light aircraft until the stall horn sounds, having been quite happily landing well above stalling speed for ages. It would have been quite instructive to have some indication of the damage I was doing to my virtual Cessna.Colin

[rhodges 6]

Colin:Your logic has some merit and your case at least partially is well taken, but only to a point IMHO.Where to draw the line seems to be in question and the envelope may need to be better defined. By that, I mean that your example of coming in hot for a landing may or may not be outside of the envelope. A case might even be made for intentially performing in this way which would be inside the envelope under some conditions (with limitations). Virtually all aircraft are capable of landing without holding them off until your stall warning horn goes off and I do not believe this techincally violates the envelope (as long as you have enough runway before the plane is willing to slow down). In MOST cases, this would probably only mean needless wear and tear on the aircraft and very poor pilot technique. However, for example, to land a tail wheel aircraft with a wheel landing (NOT a full stall landing) the speed would have to be at least slightly above stall speed. Incidently, this old CFI of ages past believes all student pilots would be better off if they learned their lessons until solo in such an aircraft (Yea I am old, but I bet I am still not alone in this belief). A case might be made for this with FS as well, but I never really thought about it until now.I think what we are talking about are speeds above the maximum speed of the aircraft and maneuvers that exceed the design, altitude, or some other limitation of the aircraft in question. (i.e. aircraft below aerobatic capabilities which are put under such conditions). Who knows what would happen ( and lives to tell about it)? Probably red line engine specifications should be added to this. In any case, wear and tear on the aircraft may be the only result as many are very forgiving up to a point.For anyone who wants wild reactions that might or not be well defined, I would assume that there are countless programs available that would give such results. I have to confess that FS is my only passion relative to computer games, and the need for such is somewhat lost on me, however, to each his own.Respectfully:RTH