2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Did you miss the title of this topic? And do you also not understand the meaning of "most"? The OP said, why doesn't MSFS create an expo of their own. I responded to the OP and said they shouldn't, because if most of the announcements at FSExpo that are not hardware related, end up being about MSFS, then the MSFS team can save a lot of money from creating their own expo.

Obviously, it's not 100% an MSFS expo for non-hardware related announcement, that's why I said "most." Most is not 100%.

Did you not read what I posted?  It's in the first line.  You literally said "Just let FSExpo occur as it normally does, and it ends up being an MSFS Expo anyways."  Stop minimizing the hard work of everyone who makes the expo possible.  It's not an MSFS expo.  It never was.  It never will be.  And people who appreciate the work done in this community will never see it as just an MSFS expo.  It's a flight sim expo, of which MSFS is a part of.  

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by GoranM

9 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Did you not read what I posted?  It's in the first line.  Stop minimizing the hard work of everyone who makes the expo possible.  It's not an MSFS expo.  It never was.  It never will be.  And people who appreciate the work done in this community will never see it as just an MSFS expo.  It's a flight sim expo, of which MSFS is a part of.  

Good grief, I said "most." Again, "most" is not 100%. What don't you understand about that?

Obviously, it's not 100% an MSFS expo and if you think I implied it was literally a 100% MSFS expo, you read my statement wrong. But effectively, it does it's job for MSFS, in that most of the non-hardware announcements are for MSFS.  Again, I said "most." What don't you understand about "most"?

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by abrams_tank

9 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Just let FSExpo occur as it normally does, and it ends up being an MSFS Expo anyways. 

Yeah.  Good grief is right.

Do better.  Appreciate the people who give you this hobby.  Which includes more people outside of Asobo than in it.

Just now, GoranM said:

Yeah.  Good grief is right.

Do better.  Appreciate the people who give you this hobby.  Which includes more people outside of Asobo than in it.

We certainly appreciate all the threads you got locked in the MSFS forum in the past. Hope you don't get this one locked too.

Just now, abrams_tank said:

We certainly appreciate all the threads you got locked in the MSFS forum in the past. Hope you don't get this one locked too.

Nice deflection.  

Good to see you understand my point.

I have better things to do now.

1 minute ago, GoranM said:

Nice deflection.  

Good to see you understand my point.

I have better things to do now.

You never had a point. Again, I said "most" from the very beginning. Most does not mean 100%.  You are the one that freaked out.

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by abrams_tank

3 hours ago, Georgleboui said:

I'd just like a big expo that's somewhere else in the world. Would love to attend FSExpo, but with the current political climate I'd rather avoid travelling to the US if I can avoid it.  

I would love to see the return of the UK Flightsim Show, but sadly nobody seems to care anymore.

4 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

But that's my point. MSFS had nothing to do with FSExpo that weekend, but yet had the biggest impact on the flight sim community that same weekend with an announcement "outside" of the Expo.

I worked at job that was going through major lay-offs etc while my department was hiring and giving special bonuses. Has any of Asobo-MSFS team been laid off? Last I heard, they expanded their staff for MSFS2024.

ASOBO was games developer studio even before Phill Spencer approached them. If ASOBO want to fund a show that`s down to them but you can rule out MS.

9 hours ago, GoranM said:

No.  It doesn't.  Minimizing the hard work of every single person who makes the expo possible is beneath even you.  Although it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.  It's a flight sim expo.  Which includes people from FSA, FSElite, Laminar, Winwings, more streamers than I care to count, and a multitude of other people who work hard to make the expo, and flight simming, what it is.  

The only MSFS related elements of the expo that I saw, because I was actually there for all 3 days, was the inibuilds booth, the PMDG booth, and Toliss' announcement.  If there was more MSFS related content there, not much was done to make it visible.  

By the way, more people attended this year, without Asobo's attendance, than last year, with Asobo's attendance.  There's your MSFS expo.

Much of the spike in interest around flight simming over the past 5 years is due to MSFS. From 3PDevs to hardware Devs, many more companies have invested heavily in products due to MSFS  huge customer base (millions) and earnings potential.

PMDG is a perfect example of this now soley producing for MSFS, and claiming that they sold more units in MSFS in a short time than all other sims combined in their history of sales.

Moza was huge in the hardware for Car simulators, and is now heavily invested in flight simming, There is also Turtle Beach, and now Next Level has a “MSFS edition” flight chair.

With all that said, the attendance of the Expo today is “what it is” due to MSFS influence / attraction, even in their absence. That is the reality, and it does not take away from others hard work; it helps to make their hard work pay off with respect to the overall interest in flight simming today...thanks to MSFS.

Lets not forget the 2019 MSFS announcement that overshadowed the boring 2019 Expo that same weekend. MSFS definitely owned "that" weekend then with respect to reaction, excitement, and buzz. So yeah, I think that it is safe for someone today to say that its "MSFS Expo anyway".

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by OverTheEDJ

14 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Much of the spike in interest around flight simming over the past 5 years is due to MSFS. From 3PDevs to hardware Devs, many more companies have invested heavily in products due to MSFS  huge customer base (millions) and earnings potential.

PMDG is a perfect example of this now soley producing for MSFS, and claiming that they sold more units in MSFS in a short time than all other sims combined in their history of sales.

Moza was huge in the hardware for Car simulators, and is now heavily invested in flight simming, There is also Turtle Beach, and now Next Level has a “MSFS edition” flight chair.

With all that said, the attendance of the Expo today is “what it is” due to MSFS influence / attraction, even in their absence. That is the reality, and it does not take away from others hard work; it helps to make their hard work pay off with respect to the overall interest in flight simming today...thanks to MSFS.

Lets not forget the 2019 MSFS announcement that overshadowed the boring 2019 Expo that same weekend. MSFS definitely owned "that" weekend then with respect to reaction, excitement, and buzz. So yeah, I think that it is safe for someone today to say that its "MSFS Expo anyway".

if you say so.  I went to the 2018 and 2019 expo's, and they were pretty popular without MSFS. 

Am I saying MSFS had no impact?  No.  But they certainly didn't drive popularity of the expo's up to the extent some people make it out to be.  Like I said, there were more attendees this year than last year, and this year saw no Asobo.  The expo wasn't the expo prior to 2018.  It was Flight sim con.  And those were mildly popular.  When FSA branched out and made the expo, it was a huge success, due to the work of FSA, and everyone else involved, 2 years before MSFS.  In fact, FSA sold out the venue (1100 attendees) in Vegas in 2018.  2019 saw 1700 attendees.  

I've been making a living out of add ons in XP since 2009, and I didn't need MSFS to do it.  The TBM and CL650 I made, afforded me an entirely new lifestyle, and that was 2 full years prior to MSFS.  Granted, MSFS has pleasantly spiked my sales since 2020, due to further exposure, but flight simming has always been around, even when MSFS was cancelled after FSX and again after Flight.

If it makes you feel better to say MSFS is responsible for flight simmings popularity, ok...go ahead.  🤷‍♂️

 

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by GoranM

16 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

With all that said, the attendance of the Expo today is “what it is” due to MSFS influence / attraction, even in their absence. That is the reality, and it does not take away from others hard work; it helps to make their hard work pay off with respect to the overall interest in flight simming today...thanks to MSFS.

100% agree with this, well said! 👏👏👏

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by abrams_tank

Just now, abrams_tank said:

100% agree with this, well said!

There's a surprise!

24 minutes ago, GoranM said:

f you say so.  I went to the 2018 and 2019 expo's, and they were pretty popular without MSFS. 

Interesting, because I recall a very top mod on Avsim stating that it (referring to 2018 or 2019) was the most boring he had been to. Everyone has their "opinion". Some will agree with you, some will agree with me.

But the fact is that the MSFS announcement was the biggest news "that" weekend in 2019.

24 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Am I saying MSFS had no impact?  No.  But they certainly didn't drive popularity of the expo's up to the extent some people make it out to be.  Like I said, there were more attendees this year than last year, and this year saw no Asobo.  

There were more attendees this year due to MSFS influence and popularity that has "expanded" the flight consumer base. Expanding the consumer base has a direct impact on expanding the attendees for the Expo looking at products made by Devs that invested heavily due to MSFS. That's just logic.

That fact that MSFS was not there (but was there in "spirit" like their city update to commemorate the event) proves my point more so than yours. Rethink your logic.

 

24 minutes ago, GoranM said:

've been making a living out of add ons in XP since 2009, and I didn't need MSFS to do it.  The TBM and CL650 I made, afforded me an entirely new lifestyle, and that was 2 full years prior to MSFS.  Granted, MSFS has pleasantly spiked my sales since 2020, due to further exposure, but flight simming has always been around, even when MSFS was cancelled after FSX and again after Flight.

There are plenty of 3PDevs who abandoned "all other" development platforms to "soley" focus on MSFS.

You do what works for you, but others like PMDG has already expressed huge sales bumps by investing in MSFS vs other platforms.

 

24 minutes ago, GoranM said:

 

If it makes you feel better to say MSFS is responsible for flight simmings popularity, ok...go ahead.  🤷‍♂️

MSFS popularity and influence on flight simming itself is a fact, not a feeling. 

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by OverTheEDJ

55 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Interesting, because I recall a very top mod on Avsim stating that it (referring to 2018 or 2019) was the most boring he had been to. Everyone has their "opinion". Some will agree with you, some will agree with me.

Ok.  But without a name, quote or THE expo he/she attended, it's nothing but hearsay.

55 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

But the fact is that the MSFS announcement was the biggest news "that" weekend in 2019.

Not at the Orlando expo.  They announced that at the E3 expo.  Over 66000 people attended that expo.  It's safe to say they weren't there to see Asobo announce MSFS.  If they were, we'd have the same, or more people attend every expo that MSFS attends.

It may have been the biggest news the MSFS community heard, for very obvious reasons.  That's ok.  Nothing wrong with that.  

55 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

There were more attendees this year due to MSFS influence and popularity that has "expanded" the flight consumer base.

I already mentioned earlier, there were 3 key MSFS elements I saw at this years expo.  The inibuilds booth, the PMDG booth, and the Toliss/Aerosoft announcement.  The only thing I saw in the PMDG booth was R.Randazzo taking photos with people.  I'm not saying he didn't do other things, but he took a LOT of photos and talked a lot to a few people.

inibuilds saw a few people go in and out.  The Toliss announcement saw about 15-20 people in the seats.  It was a definite FLIGHT SIM vibe.  Not an MSFS vibe.  As a matter of fact, the vast majority of the expo was centred around hardware.  Hardware that was compatible with P3D, X-Plane and MSFS.

What kept the flight simming hobby going since around 2012 when Flight was cancelled, was P3D and X-Plane.  You can disagree if you want to, but it's a fact.  P3D took over from FSX, while X-Plane kept in its own corner doing its own thing.  

55 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

That fact that MSFS was not there (but was there in "spirit" like their city update to commemorate the event) proves my point more so than yours. Rethink your logic.

I suggest you read up on why Asobo weren't there.  If you want to say they were there "in spirit", while attendance numbers were up, well heck...they never have to show up to another expo again.  Personally, unless they had a very valid reason to not show up, like being turned away when trying to enter America, I think it shows incredibly bad taste to not show up.  And I would say that about Laminar, FSElite, anyone who has the means to show up, but chooses not to.  However, it's obvious you, and many others here, are very forgiving.  I certainly wouldn't be, and I know I'm not alone, with regards to Laminar, if they didn't show up.  I would definitely let my feelings be known to them, personally.  I mean, Asobo didn't even sponsor the expo.  Millions of customers, and not even a sponsorship to help out FSA.  Here's a list of the sponsors and exhibitors.  Even P3D sponsored the expo!  A platform many in here constantly called a dead sim.  You call that "being there in spirit"??  And before you, or anyone else tells me that it's too far for them to travel, I travelled from Sydney, Australia to Providence, on my own dime, for the expo.  And I didn't sell 10 million addons.  If I did, I'd be taking a bizjet to the expo.

55 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

You do what works for you, but others like PMDG has already expressed huge sales bumps by investing in MSFS vs other platforms.

Of course they did!  I mentioned it in several developer forums, that PMDG made a huge mistake coming to X-Plane.  They needed to, as even YOU say, stick to what works for them.  They're known.  They have a reputation.  AS MSFS and P3D developers.  As X-Plane developers, they were always going to fail.  

55 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

MSFS popularity and influence on flight simming itself is a fact, not a feeling. 

To some people.  I can promise you, it had no effect on me staying in flight simming or choosing X-Plane as a consumer flight sim, and then as a development path, after FSX.  I was with the MSFS franchise since FS5.  All the way up to FSX.  When they closed their doors, I simply moved on to the alternative, and what eventually became what I thought was the better platform.  Am I wrong in MY choice?  No.  Are you?  No.  A parallel is Windows and MacOS.  I much prefer MacOS and Apple to Windows.  Without a doubt.  I still use my Windows PC, though.  Because it does some things better.  Just like MSFS does some things better than X-Plane and P3D (which I also have).  

My entire point in this thread was a person minimizing the work and effort it takes to put something like an expo together, by a large GROUP of people in a flight simming community, that extends way past Asobo and MSFS.  No matter how you look at it, Asobo and the MSFS franchise are a cog in a machine.  Can flight simming survive without MSFS?  Of course it can.  It already has.  For over 10 years between FSX and 2020.  That's an observable fact.  Will flight simming survive without it, if they decide to close up again?  Of course it will.  

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by GoranM

I honestly don't see the need for a separate Expo?

It's Flight Simulation, and it's not only about MSFS. Thankfully there are many other offers, hardware solutions, even products transversal to the domain of flight simulation like VR, Navigation, Flight Planning, ATC, Carreer...

Why a separate event?

Actually if we think about it, this turn around with all of the hype in FS 2024 pre-release and the invited youtubers, reviewers, devs... it didn't end the best way, with some of them ending up being very crítical afterwards about the state FS 2024 was released in... 😕

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by jcomm