57 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

There are plenty of 3PDevs who abandoned "all other" development platforms to "soley" focus on MSFS.

You do what works for you, but others like PMDG has already expressed huge sales bumps by investing in MSFS vs other platforms.

A bit of a chicken/egg observation: ESP 3PDs were utterly devastated by the acute collapse of the P3D/FSX market once MSFS went live. They had absolutely no choice but to jump ship to MSFS because of how fast flight simmers stopped spending money on ESP addons.

It got/remains so bad that many devs just gave their previously study level & premium $ addons away as freeware. And others have stated the cost of providing support for ESP addons is more than the income, so they just took them offline entirely.

Now, obviously this reinforces the Mountain Making Its Own Weather point, but still...

14 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I honestly don't see the need for a separate Expo?

It's Flight Simulation, and it's not only about MSFS. Thankfully there are many other offers, hardware solutions, even products transversal to the domain of flight simulation like VR, Navigation, Flight Planning, ATC, Carreer...

Why a separate event?

Actually if we think about it, this turn around with all of the hype in FS 2024 pre-release and the invited youtubers, reviewers, devs... it didn't end the best way, with some of then being very crítica afterwards about the state FS 2024 was released in... 😕

This reminds me of a period during FS9 where PMDG were so revered, and so popular, that people were asking Randazzo if PMDG could make a new flight sim, and even one person asking if he could donate money to PMDG to show support.  I had to reply to that one, and I remember saying, word for word, "That's like asking Tom Cruise if you can donate money to help him make a Mission Impossible movie."

I enjoy seeing passion within a community, but sometimes it can get dangerously extreme.

I know how hard people work behind the scenes in this community.  Even the moderators in here.  From my understanding, they are all volunteers.  

It's extremely long hours, sore joints, even I had to start seeing a chiropractor about 2 years ago, who I still see to this day, because of my back , due to constantly sitting.  I'm not complaining, because it's what I signed up for, and continue to do, willingly.  But it really bothers me when I see that work get minimized by a few peoples comments.

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by GoranM

Lets be honest if MSFS folded up shop today it would only flush out the gamers and non serious simmers and the serious ones will move on to another sim or go backwards to a previous sim if they are serious flight simmers. It took me 16 years to leave from FSX to MSFS (2020) in 2021 to move on and if I had to I would go back or try another option and I am not a hardcore simmer by any means but I am no gamish sight seer either and try to take flight sim somewhat serious. Flight sim will still live with or without MS and that is my honest opinion.

Edit: lets not make no mistake about it MS contributed a lot to the FS community in the last 5 years though.

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by JBDB-MD80

29 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I suggest you read up on why Asobo weren't there.  If you want to say they were there "in spirit", while attendance numbers were up, well heck...they never have to show up to another expo again.  Personally, unless they had a very valid reason to not show up, like being turned away when trying to enter America, I think it shows incredibly bad taste to not show up.  And I would say that about Laminar, FSElite, anyone who has the means to show up, but chooses not to.  However, it's obvious you, and many others here, are very forgiving.  I certainly wouldn't be, and I know I'm not alone, with regards to Laminar, if they didn't show up.  I would definitely let my feelings be known to them, personally.  I mean, Asobo didn't even sponsor the expo.  Millions of customers, and not even a sponsorship to help out FSA.  Here's a list of the sponsors and exhibitors.  Even P3D sponsored the expo!  A platform many in here constantly called a dead sim.  You call that "being there in spirit"??  And before you, or anyone else tells me that it's too far for them to travel, I travelled from Sydney, Australia to Providence, on my own dime, for the expo.  And I didn't sell 10 million addons.  If I did, I'd be taking a bizjet to the expo.

I don't enjoy trade shows (never have, of any kind...), so i hadn't really paid attention to your points above.

I can (somewhat) understand not attending (because I think they would've needed flak jackets). But it's indeed astounding that they didn't at least buy a sponsorship for the event...!

In addition to Prepar3D, what REALLY caught my eye was the fact that Fly By Wire actually purchased a booth - a freeware developer! And the presence of Grinelli Designs, who hasn't even released a payware module, showing off their soon to be awesome F-100 Super Sabre - for DCS World!

Yeah, the complete lack of support definitely colors my opinion of Asobo.

26 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Ok.  But without a name, quote or THE expo he/she attended, it's nothing but hearsay.

That's what you say, you are welcome to research "these" forums to find it yourself.

I stated a FACT, like the United States had its first female VP in 2021. I did not give you a name, quotes, or links. Is that hearsay? Or are you able to confirm it for yourself?

FACTS remain regardless of what "you" think about them.

26 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Not at the Orlando expo.  They announced that at the E3 expo.

They announced it and it became the biggest news of the "year" for flight simming. Splitting hairs does not change the facts that I presented.

27 minutes ago, GoranM said:

What kept the flight simming hobby going since around 2012 when Flight was cancelled, was P3D and X-Plane.  You can disagree if you want to, but it's a fact.  P3D took over from FSX, while X-Plane kept in its own corner doing its own thing.  

Yep.....until MSFS came back on the scene in 2019 and ultimately made the Expo what it is today. 

27 minutes ago, GoranM said:

To some people.  I can promise you, it had no effect on me staying in flight simming or choosing X-Plane as a consumer flight sim, and then as a development path, after FSX.  

But it had an impact on millions of PC and newly introduced X-Box users that helped grow the flight sim base that makes the "Expo" what it is today.

 

1 minute ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I don't enjoy trade shows (never have, of any kind...), so i hadn't really paid attention to your points above.

I can (somewhat) understand not attending (because I think they would've needed flak jackets). But it's indeed astounding that they didn't at least buy a sponsorship for the event...!

In addition to Prepar3D, what REALLY caught my eye was the fact that Fly By Wire actually purchased a booth - a freeware developer! And the presence of Grinelli Designs, who hasn't even released a payware module, showing off their soon to be awesome F-100 Super Sabre - for DCS World!

Yeah, the complete lack of support definitely colors my opinion of Asobo.

Precisely my point!

I was hoping someone was going to catch your examples.  Freeware developers supporting the expo is something I tip my hat to.  

5 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

They announced it and it became the biggest news of the "year" for flight simming. Splitting hairs does not change the facts that I presented.

Again, not to everyone.  When i heard about it, I said "Oh cool.  MSFS is coming back".  I didn't go bananas or do backflips.  And I'm certainly no isolated case.

5 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Yep.....until MSFS came back on the scene in 2019 and ultimately made the Expo what it is today. 

I'm not going to get into an argument with you.  I'll say it again, the expo was a massive success, with all tickets sold for the venue, in 2018, and again in 2019.  And it had nothing to do with MSFS.  The expo is what it is because of everyone who made it happen.  Not because of MSFS.

5 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

But it had an impact on millions of PC and newly introduced X-Box users that helped grow the flight sim base that makes the "Expo" what it is today.

*sigh*

Ok.  Have it your way.

It's 420am, and I'm tired.

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by GoranM

5 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I stated a FACT

Then back it up with evidence.

5 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Yep.....until MSFS came back on the scene in 2019 and ultimately made the Expo what it is today.

Have you attended any expo before and after the introduction of MSFS?

And here's a breakdown of pricing for sponsorships and booths.  Something Asobo could very easily afford.

https://flight-simulation-association-storage.s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/fsexpo/docs/FSExpo2025EventOverview.pdf

There in spirit?  🤨

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by GoranM

2 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Then back it up with evidence.

Funny how you are not asking me about backing up the VP FACT. I did not provide evidence of that one either. And guess what, I did not need to because its a FACT that you can confirm for your yourself, and even if you choose not to, the FACT still remains.

 

4 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Have you attended any expo before and after the introduction of MSFS?

 Have you?

Um and when you answer that the question with facts, please provide the evidence to back it up. I am not requiring that you do so, I am just asking you to do the things that you require of others as it relates to fact  on this forum. Start with you.

 

4 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

its a FACT that you can confirm for your yourself

Sure, whatever...

4 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Have you?

No. But I also didn't make any claim like yours. Bye.

16 minutes ago, GoranM said:

And here's a breakdown of pricing for sponsorships and booths.  Something Asobo could very easily afford.

https://flight-simulation-association-storage.s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/fsexpo/docs/FSExpo2025EventOverview.pdf

There in spirit?  🤨

That's some reasonable pricing.

As I stated before, I think that the writing was on the wall last year that MSFS would not attend this year. Jorge looked too uncomfortable when asked if they would return for 2025. I think MSFS had plans to do their own thing going foward...

Then the MSFS2024 launch was a disaster (and in some ways, still is for some users).

While MSFS had a legitimate excuse for not attending this year, I also think that the overall feeling around MSFS 2024 in its current state (SU3 approaching) is not too positive. There are still many issues and I think that MSFS would have definitely felt that frustrated energy had they attended.

So that is why I am speculating and started the thread. 

7 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Sure, whatever...

So you can make demands and ask questions of others, but refuse to do research. Got it.

8 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

No. But I also didn't make any claim like yours. Bye.

Um, can you provide evidence that you did not attend? I mean you are demanding that I provide evidence to "back up" my statements of Fact.

I made a claim about the first female VP, was that a FACT? Could you confirm it?

Bye.

On 7/10/2025 at 2:16 PM, OverTheEDJ said:

Asobo did not return in 2025 for “stated” reasons, but I believe that the writing was on the wall in the summer of 2024 before the MSFS2024 release / debacle.

Total guess!!!

Asobo is not going to disclose reasons for not attending an event.

Should they have there own event, No. They already have many avenues to interact with gamers.

Will they have there own event. Anyone that knows isn't going to say. So anything today is purely speculation.

Personally I'm not sure what meeting in person accomplishes.

Trade shows in general seem to be a thing of the past with all forms of connecting with customers.

What little reporting I've seen about FSExpo over the recent past confirms to me unless it is in my backyard it is a total waste of time and money to attend.

 

 

47 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

That's some reasonable pricing.

As I stated before, I think that the writing was on the wall last year that MSFS would not attend this year. Jorge looked too uncomfortable when asked if they would return for 2025. I think MSFS had plans to do their own thing going foward...

Then the MSFS2024 launch was a disaster (and in some ways, still is for some users).

While MSFS had a legitimate excuse for not attending this year, I also think that the overall feeling around MSFS 2024 in its current state (SU3 approaching) is not too positive. There are still many issues and I think that MSFS would have definitely felt that frustrated energy had they attended.

So that is why I am speculating and started the thread. 

Yup, your definitely doing some crazy speculation.

It actually seems more like your guessing on many of your points.