1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Your opinions don’t count as facts. By all means, worship at the altar of Asobo if you want to. I’ll commend the work and financial support of everyone who made the expos possible. Including Asobo as a PART of that. 

 

1) MSFS has brought million of consumers to flight simmimg. Fact

2) Many 3PDevs have flocked to MSFS, some abandoning all other sim platforms. Fact

3) Since the release of MSFS, many filght hardware devs have entered the flight sim space making both PC and X-box hardware, one or more branding their product after MSFS. Fact

4) The flight Expo attracts these same consumers, 3PDevs, and hardware developers. Fact

5) MSFS popularity has a direct impact on the popularity of the Expo and Flight simming. Fact

A clear sign of when you have lost an argument, is when you resort to comments like "worship the alter" because you can't change the facts, and you can't fool the other person into being distracted from the facts while you offer your own "opinion" in denial of the facts. 

 

2 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

 

1) MSFS has brought million of consumers to flight simmimg. Fact

2) Many 3PDevs have flocked to MSFS, some abandoning all other sim platforms. Fact

3) Since the release of MSFS, many filght hardware devs have entered the flight sim space making both PC and X-box hardware, one or more branding their product after MSFS. Fact

4) The flight Expo attracts these same consumers, 3PDevs, and hardware developers. Fact

5) MSFS popularity has a direct impact on the popularity of the Expo and Flight simming. Fact

A clear sign of when you have lost an argument, is when you resort to comments like "worship the alter" because you can't change the facts, and you can't fool the other person into being distracted from the facts while you offer your own "opinion" in denial of the facts. 

 

What is it you want me, and everyone else to say?  That Asobo is solely responsible for what flight simming and the expo is today?  I'm not going to do that.  The expo was a huge success for 2 years prior to Asobo coming onto the scene.  And anyone with a shred of common sense knew Asobo wasn't going to this years expo, based on the floor plan of the booths.  And I'll leave the sponsorship part of that discussion alone.  It speaks for itself.

I'd love to address every one of your points, but I'm really not in the mood to argue with you.  I will say that each one of them has a certain degree of exaggeration to them.

I told you.  Believe whatever you want.  But I'm not going to cave in and say "Thank You!" to a company that arrived on the scene 11 years after I started doing this as a career.

And if you want to talk about what constitutes losing an argument, I can easily come back with you pushing opinions as facts.

I find it utterly mind boggling that there are some people in this community, thankfully, a minority, that simply can't get along when it comes to differences of opinion.  

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by GoranM

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

I find it utterly mind boggling that there are some people in this community, thankfully, a minority, that simply can't get along when it comes to differences of opinion.  

This is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black 🤣.

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by abrams_tank

31 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

This is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black 🤣.

Really?  Do you forget the time you invited ANYONE from the X-Plane community to discuss flight models with you, that you were open to it.  And when I did, you completely ignored me.  Happy to show a screenshot of my original DM to you, and the time it was "read", and ultimately ignored.  Or do you want to discuss why you have a NoXP tag on your name.  Actually, no.  Because I have better things to do than allow you to suck me in to a thread derailment, that YOU are now instigating, which you will, in turn, shift the blame onto me, like you always do.  

You're great at promoting MSFS with a healthy dose of hyperbole.  Stick to what you're good at.

Do better.

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by GoranM

4 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

 

1) MSFS has brought million of consumers to flight simmimg. Fact

2) Many 3PDevs have flocked to MSFS, some abandoning all other sim platforms. Fact

3) Since the release of MSFS, many filght hardware devs have entered the flight sim space making both PC and X-box hardware, one or more branding their product after MSFS. Fact

4) The flight Expo attracts these same consumers, 3PDevs, and hardware developers. Fact

5) MSFS popularity has a direct impact on the popularity of the Expo and Flight simming. Fact

A clear sign of when you have lost an argument, is when you resort to comments like "worship the alter" because you can't change the facts, and you can't fool the other person into being distracted from the facts while you offer your own "opinion" in denial of the facts. 

 

There were successful Flight Sim shows before 2019 Fact. 

Microsoft had no interest In flight sim before 2020 Fact. 

We even had shows in the UK that was well attended and successful Fact.

It`s so popular now that there's no show in the UK anymore Fact.

 

25 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Really?  Do you forget the time you invited ANYONE from the X-Plane community to discuss flight models with you, that you were open to it.  And when I did, you completely ignored me.  Happy to show a screenshot of my original DM to you, and the time it was "read", and ultimately ignored.  Or do you want to discuss why you have a NoXP tag on your name.  Actually, no.  Because I have better things to do than allow you to suck me in to a thread derailment, that YOU are now instigating.

Yeah.  Do better.

Maybe let's discuss the recent example where I said that Toliss was entering the MSFS market, and you disagreed, but then you attacked me first thing and practically derailed a thread, just as you are derailing this thread because you don't agree with OverTheDJ's opinion, even after I presented you with Investopedia's definition of licensing that it can be deemed the person issuing the license can be seen according to Investopiedia's writing to "enter new markets".  And on top of this, the Toliss representative as FlightsimExpo said they want to "test the waters of Microsoft."

For one moment, we can even forget about the Investopedia page on licensing. The fact that the Toliss representative said point blank, they want to "test the waters of Microsoft," entirely backs up my point of view that Toliss is entering the MSFS market. But this is my opinion, and instead of being civil and accepting my opinion, you attack me first thing in your reply to me. You can't accept other's opinions, and that's why you attacked me first thing in that thread.  Even if you disagree with my opinion on Toliss entering the MSFS market, that's fine, stay civil about it, discuss it in a civil manner, but don't attack me as the very first comment in that thread!  And yes, if you believe that Toliss isn't entering the MSFS market, that's fine, I respectfully disagree with you, but let's keep it civil, and don't attack someone as the first comment in that thread.

The point is, you can't accept other's opinions in the MSFS forum. In fact, how many threads have you gotten locked in the MSFS forum in the past? You getting so many threads locked here in the MSFS forum is proof that you don't accept others opinions.

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

I find it utterly mind boggling that there are some people in this community, thankfully, a minority, that simply can't get along when it comes to differences of opinion.  

Your quote here is exactly describing yourself.  If you would be more acceptive of other's opinions, you wouldn't have gotten so many threads here in the MSFS forum locked in the past. 

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by abrams_tank

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

Maybe let's discuss the time I said that Toliss was entering the MSFS market, and you disagreed, but then you had a big hissy fit and practically derailed a thread, just as you are derailing this thread because you don't agree with OverTheDJ's opinion, even after I presented you with Investopedia's definition of licensing that it can be deemed the person issuing the license can be seen according to Investopiedia's writing to "enter new markets".  And on top of this, the Toliss representative as FlightsimExpo said they want to "test the waters of Microsoft."

For one moment, we can even forget about the Investopedia page on licensing. The fact that the Toliss representative said point blank, they want to "test the waters of Microsoft," entirely backs up my point of view that Toliss is entering the MSFS market.

The point is, you can't accept other's opinions in the MSFS forum. In fact, how many threads have you gotten locked in the MSFS forum in the past? You getting so many threads locked here in the MSFS forum is proof that you don't accept others opinions.

Your quote here is exactly describing yourself.  If you would be more acceptive of other's opinions, you wouldn't have gotten so many threads here in the MSFS forum locked in the past.

You seriously have no idea how licenses work.  By your definition, I've entered the following markets and I am now part of the following companies.

Saab Fairchild

Aloha Airlines

Icon Aircraft

Collins Aerospace

Northwest Airlines

Bombardier

Cirrus

Several Executive Jet FBO's

You're always twisting everything I say as some kind of attack or some kind of insecurity.  

I posted that I spoke to Torsten, personally, and asked him if he's going to be "brave" by taking on 2 platforms, because the customer support will be a nightmare.  And HE told me, along with his wife who saw YOUR forum post, because I showed her, that he is NOT moving to MSFS.  He's doing what I did with all the aforementioned companies.  His work is being used in another product, that will be, exclusively, an aerosoft product.

If you're done trying to rage bait me into derailing this thread, might I suggest you fly in that fantastic flight sim called MSFS instead of engaging in arguments in a forum, adding to your tally of 5000+ forum posts in 5 years.

33 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Happy to show a screenshot of my original DM to you, and the time it was "read", and ultimately ignored.  

 

Thank you for admitting this.  If you have the whole DM of it, great, feel free to post the original DM here, without any alterations.  I would have kept a copy myself, but it was deleted from my message box, and I don't even know how it's possible for others to delete DMs from my message box that I didn't delete.  I also recall receiving 2 DMs from you, not just one, so if you can post both DMs you sent to me, without alterations, that would be even better.

And I ignored your DM because I could see you were looking for a fight over DMs.  You were in a mood for confrontation, and it was obvious of that. And what was weird was a Commercial Member of Avsim, DMing me, to start a confrontation, which I deliberately ignored.  No other Commercial Member on Avsim has DMed me to start a confrontation before, and you are the only one that has ever done that.

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Thank you for admitting this.  If you have the whole DM of it, great, feel free to post the original DM here, without any alterations.  I would have kept a copy myself, but it was deleted from my message box, and I don't even know how it's possible for others to delete DMs that I didn't delete.

I ignored your DM because I could see you were looking for a fight over DMs.  You were in a mood for confrontation, it was obvious of that. And what was weird was a Commercial Member of Avsim, DMing me, to start a confrontation, which I deliberately ignored.  No other Commercial Member has DMed me to start a confrontation.

Done!

https://ibb.co/wNTqB5L1

Hardly confrontational.

Oh, and need I remind you, YOU INVITED ANYONE to DM you to discuss flight models.  

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by GoranM

59 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Done!

https://ibb.co/wNTqB5L1

And can you see that every conversation with you, gets into a flame war?  I already knew that based on your posts to me before your DM, and eventually our spat in the MSFS thread that was moved to the Hangar thread, that got me banned (and where I got the NoXP tag from), that you are a very abrasive individual, and discussions with you can get very nasty, and end in a flame war.  That's why I ignored you. To be honest, I have been trying to ignore you for the last 2 years, but you keep attacking me, over and over again, in the last few weeks.  My comment on, "the pot calling the kettle black," is probably the first time in about 2 years, that I responded to you directly without you responding to me first, because it was very obvious that you cannot accept other's opinions.

But if we can keep this civil, please me more open minded to accept other's opinions.  The example of Toliss entering the MSFS market is the perfect example of this. You should learn to accept that some people can see Toliss as entering the MSFS market, especially after the Toliss representative said at the FSExpo, that they want to "test the waters of Microsoft."  Just accept that others have a different opinion that you, and respect it. Please do not attack others for having a different opinion than you.

I understand all your points, that you don't think Toliss is entering the MSFS market.  And I can respectfully disagree with you.  But I'm not going to start off by attacking you as the first thing, as you did to me in the other thread. 

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by abrams_tank

20 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The point is, you can't accept other's opinions in the MSFS forum

With all due respect, can you? And why do you feel you're being attacked when someone opposes your opinion on something?

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by Rimshot

59 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

With all due respect, can you?

Have you seen me get a lot of threads in the MSFS forum locked as much as Goran has? I disagree with people all the time. But I don't get threads in the MSFS forum locked, near as much as Goran does. And I participate and post in the MSFS forum, way more than Goran does as well.

Mind you, Goran is also a Commercial Member, not a normal Avsim member.

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by abrams_tank

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

And can you see that every conversation with you, gets into a flame war?  I already knew that based on your posts to me before your DM, and eventually our spat in the MSFS thread that was moved to the Hangar thread, that got me banned (and where I got the NoXP tag from), that you are a very abrasive individual, and discussions with you can get very nasty.  That's why I ignored you. To be honest, I have been trying to ignore you for the last 2 years, but you keep attacking me, over and over again, in the last few weeks.  My comment on, "the pot calling the kettle black," is the first time in about 2 years, that I responded to you directly, because it was very obvious that you cannot accept other's opinions.

But if we can keep this civil, please me more open minded to accept other's opinions.  The example of Toliss entering the MSFS market is the perfect example of this. You should learn to accept that some people can see Toliss as entering the MSFS market, especially after the Toliss representative said at the FSExpo, that they want to "test the waters of Microsoft."  Just accept that others have a different opinion that you, and respect it. Please do not attack others for having a different opinion than you.

I understand all your points, that you don't think Toliss is entering the MSFS market.  And I can respectfully disagree with you.  But I'm not going to start off by attacking you as the first thing, as you did to me in the other thread. 

You literally just came in here and labelled me the pot calling the kettle black over a comment I made to someone else about people getting along.  I never even mentioned you.  You've responded to several of my posts, directly, over the past week, alone.  2 years??  

Seriously.  Are you ok?

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by GoranM

3 minutes ago, GoranM said:

You literally just came in here and labelled me the pot calling the kettle black over a comment I made to someone else about people getting along.  I never even mentioned you.  

Seriously.  Are you ok?

Just as you attacked me earlier in this thread, because I used the word "most," and you interpreted it as "all."  I didn't mention you either, before you went after me!  Nor did I mention you when I said Toliss was entering the MSFS market and you attacked me in that thread first thing.

And like I said, I have tried to spend the last 2 years, not replying to your comments, to avoid confrontation with you.  But you keep attacking me in the last several weeks, even when I don't mention you.  So if you are going to keep attacking me, over and over again, then I will start to reply to your comments.

Edited July 13, 2025Jul 13 by abrams_tank

Just now, abrams_tank said:

Just as you attacked me earlier in this thread, because I used the word "most," and you interpreted it as "all."  I didn't mention you either, before you went after me!  Nor did I mention you when I said Toliss was entering the MSFS market and you attacked me in that thread first thing.

Wow.  Ok, with as much courtesy as I can muster, this is the last time I'm mentioning this, because it's obvious you somehow can't understand.  

You're talking about something I never even spoke about.  You said let the expo happen, and it'll become an MSFS expo anyway.  And I said the expo is a group effort by all corners of the flight sim community.  I don't know where you're getting this all and some business.  I'm not even talking about that.  It's a flight sim expo.  Not an MSFS expo.