7 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

The customer shouldn't have to worry about technical subjects like LODS - why the hell should they care?  MSFS was advertised as having worldwide ship traffic, but it doesn't. If the ship is big enough to be draw, it should be.  It is not good enough to have to get closer to see it suddenly pop on the screen.  Same with airborne traffic.  I see it plotted on the TCAS but it can't be seen - I'm flying GA and I need to see it to avoid.  Absolutely awful when it suddenly pops into view when it was large enough to draw miles away (yes, I know other traffic can be difficult to spot at various distances, but no good looking for it if a LOD has culled it).  What about the crops we see during 2024 loading, where the helicopter is spraying the crops AND where we see crops in distant fields too - where are they in the sim?  Are they they but we can't see them due to LODS?

I was a staunch supporter of 2024 for six months after release, but continued technical issues, poor LODS AND being lied to has led me to XP12 where there are no LOD problems.  My trust in MSFS delivering what they promised started a slow decline when they ruined the excellent weather we had in 2020.  I currently can't use 2024 because of a sound issue that often crashes my PC.  I check in regularly, but it never improves.

Your patronizing statement is not relevant when discussing LODS.  If people were complaining about the speed of vehicles on the roads, your comment may be relevant. IT IS NOT RELEVANT when discussing content being culled when it should be visible!

In XP12 I can see ANY type of vehicle as far away as it can be drawn, and that includes cars, ships and aircraft.  I do not see airfield structures being culled when I'm in the circuit.  MSFS2024 has a poor LOD system, it can't be denied.

Let me break this down, and before I do so, let me also be absolutely crystal clear about one thing.  The current situation IMHO is not OK.  I am not seeking to defend or excuse it, I have no reason or need to do so.  I too experience the issue and I'd like it to go away as well.  What I'm attempting to do is explain WHY it is how it is, so that people such as yourself who aren't happy about it, can understand clearly where the problem lies.

So here we go...

1. MSFS2024 allows for much much more detail in the sim than MSFS2020.

2. Even the most capable PCs (like mine for example), cannot run MSFS2024 with its increased detail, using the LOD system from MSFS2020, it's simply not powerful enough.

3. Ergo, the LOD system in 2024 had to change, to enable the platform to accommodate the increased detail level.

4. The way LODs for 2020 work is therefore less aggressive than 2024.

5. If you, or a third party developer, or Asobo, use model assets that were designed to function efficiently in 2020, in 2024, you will see different visual results.

6. When 2024 was first released, a proportion of the model assets were not properly optimised for the 2024 LOD system.   This meant that even first party developer partners to MS were using hacks to get their content to display properly in 2024.  

7. Many developers have subsequently lobbied Asobo/MS to change how the LOD system works, in order to reduce the necessity of using hacks to override the LOD system.

8. Asobo listened, and this resulted (through dialogue with developers), in the new LOD curve, which is being implemented in SU3 beta.  This improves some of the issues, but doesnt necessarily eliminate them altogether.

9. A model may still not have been updated to 2024 requirements.  This can result in the sim determining that it needs to display a model LOD that doesn't exist, so the object disappears.  The solution in this case is for the model owner to update the model to include the required LODs.  Barriers to this are it can take quite a substantial effort to do this alongside the resultant retexturing required and sometimes people aren't willing to pay for that work.  [caveat I'm not a modeller or texture artist, I am simply reflecting the professional opinions of professionals I work with.]

This doesn't mean that the LOD system is 'broken'.  Its actually a very complex and elegant way of allowing the sim platform to introduce much more detail than has ever been possible before.  What it does mean, is that in order to have that extra detail without your performance tanking, is that game assets need to be properly and efficiently curated.  Some of the default assets have not been, and I wouldn't get in the way of you criticising Asobo and MS for that.  It shouldnt have happened.  On the other side of the coin, its a huge project, its unreasonable to expect every last part to be 100% complete and perfect.  Looking at the big picture, it's encouraging that Asobo listened and made changes to the LOD system in SU3 beta.  This may even require further nuanced tweaking to improve it still more.  There does need to be a bigger understanding of the deleterious effects that can result from forcing 2020 assets into 2024 though, because this is the cause of many visual issues people complain about.

So the choices for us as users are: 1. only use native 2024 assets in the new sim; 2. use older assets and accept there will be issues at times; 3. stick with 2020 if the LOD system is working for you there.   What you can't have is the increased detail of 2024, using the LOD system of 2020, including assets that were not designed for it.

8 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I don’t believe anything that anyone at Asobo says in the Q&A sessions. Politicians have more respectability. 

Slightly off topic, but as someone who spent 25 years active in politics, I would respectfully disagree and amend that to "a small minority of politicians have more respectability"!

50 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

There does need to be a bigger understanding of the deleterious effects that can result from forcing 2020 assets into 2024 though, because this is the cause of many visual issues people complain about.

Finally we come to the root cause of the problem: FS2024 is just an update of MSFS which is sold at full price without even making sure that the assets ported from the old version (that represent more than 90% of the total DEFAULT assets) are displayed correctly on the screen. And this also makes me think that the delay in opening the Marketplace was due to these "headaches" and that it could not be postponed furtherly because of obvious economic reasons.

So if even your 9800X3D / 5090 system is unable to display taxiway signs, aircraft lights, wheels, contrails, etc. farther than a few meters away, how likely is that the sim will be fixed in a reasonable time without enormous sacrifices in terms of graphics detail? (i.e. returning to MSFS levels?)

12 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

Finally we come to the root cause of the problem: FS2024 is just an update of MSFS which is sold at full price without even making sure that the assets ported from the old version (that represent more than 90% of the total DEFAULT assets) are displayed correctly on the screen. And this also makes me think that the delay in opening the Marketplace was due to these "headaches" and that it could not be postponed furtherly because of obvious economic reasons.

So if even your 9800X3D / 5090 system is unable to display taxiway signs, aircraft lights, wheels, contrails, etc. farther than a few meters away, how likely is that the sim will be fixed in a reasonable time without enormous sacrifices in terms of graphics detail? (i.e. returning to MSFS levels?)

Its been admitted there were some 'teething problems' during the early release period.  It was bumpy for sure, I agree there.  I can't comment on the marketplace delay, I don't know enough about why that was.  Same with the economic imperative, although on the balance of probabilities I'd likely agree with you there.

I didn't say I had all those issues though.  Some of them, at some times, dependent on the specific models.  Personally I don't experience an issue with taxiway signs.  Contrails and lights don't cause me headaches.  Undercarriage does, that's where I would like to see some improvements.

Clearly you are unhappy at the present moment with what will always be a developing application, and IM not trying to persuade you to be otherwise.  Its breaking new ground and I suspect IMHO your expectations for it are too high at this point in its evolution.  If you choose to use another sim platform until it meets your needs, that's a perfectly valid approach for you to take.  Or ask for a refund.

My own experience with this hardware, in 2024, is overwhelmingly positive.  Its quite honestly the most detailed, smoothest, most immersive sim platform I've flown, and the LOD issues I see myself, while marginally annoying, don't distract from that great experience to a tremendous degree 😄

Edited July 21, 2025Jul 21 by kevinfirth

53 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Let me break this down, and before I do so, let me also be absolutely crystal clear about one thing.  The current situation IMHO is not OK.  I am not seeking to defend or excuse it, I have no reason or need to do so.  I too experience the issue and I'd like it to go away as well.  What I'm attempting to do is explain WHY it is how it is, so that people such as yourself who aren't happy about it, can understand clearly where the problem lies.

I appreciate the explanation of where the problem lies.  In the Sims current state assets are culled when they should be drawn. Personally I don't care if the LOD system is elegant if 8 months from release it is too difficult or expensive for creators to make model assets to work with it.

In general I like MSFS, using from 2020 until two months ago.  I will check in on MSFS regularly, but at the moment I am enjoying XP12 that has no 'LOD' issues at all while giving me 80 FPS without any form of frame generation.

I was never a fan of MSFS beating, but this 'LOD' issue was the final straw for me - a flightsim with invisible traffic!

 

You have to recognize when some people just have an agenda. That comparison to politicians was just ridiculous.

11 hours ago, prolixindec said:

Just in case it helps anyone, I'm on SU2 (I don't do the betas) and I've been running OLOD=1000 for the last several months, and I see distant aircraft, contrails, taxiway signs, and landing gear. No issues with things popping in. 

I use AutoFPS so OLOD will be reduced if there are VRAM or frame rate issues (FPS locked at 60, no frame gen), but generally the only time OLOD ever gets reduced is in heavy clouds, where it isn't needed anyway.

I just mention this to anyone who is having issues while using a low OLOD (100, 200, etc.). You might want to max it out and see what your system does with it.

 

Can you share your AutoFPS settings? How did you get OLOD 1.000, did you modify Usercfg.opt manually or does AutoFPS take care of that too?

Thanks!

50 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

Can you share your AutoFPS settings? How did you get OLOD 1.000, did you modify Usercfg.opt manually or does AutoFPS take care of that too?

Thanks!

Let me know how you get on. I tried 1000 with auto LOD and it didn’t make a blind bit of difference, so excuse my scepticism. 

7 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

FS2024 is just an update of MSFS which is sold at full price

It’s a lot more than that. The changes they made were too great to just be an update to 2020

Edited July 21, 2025Jul 21 by Tuskin38

1 hour ago, MrFuzzy said:

Can you share your AutoFPS settings? How did you get OLOD 1.000, did you modify Usercfg.opt manually or does AutoFPS take care of that too?

Thanks!

I also use Auto FPS and get TLOD of 800 when in flight in a GA aircraft. My settings are as simple as can be… Auto detect target FPS, VFR, FG… no expert settings. 

My game settings are TLOD/OLOD 400/200, I use DLSS Quality, FG, and all other settings maxed.

I have a 4090 and 9800X3D so my FPS is around 110 in flight and dips to 80ish on landing at a busy airport. Auto FPS usually targets 90FPS - so in flight I get much higher LODs (800/300)and at landing I get lower LODs (like 300/200). 

ps. A higher TLOD does not help reveal any ship traffic. In fact, I’m not sure there’s a noticeable diffrrrbce at all with a TLOD over 400. 

Edited July 21, 2025Jul 21 by Virtual-Chris

2 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I also use Auto FPS and get TLOD of 800 when in flight in a GA aircraft. My settings are as simple as can be… Auto detect target FPS, VFR, FG… no expert settings. 

My game settings are TLOD/OLOD 400/200, I use DLSS Quality, FG, and all other settings maxed.

I have a 4090 and 9800X3D so my FPS is around 110 in flight and dips to 80ish on landing at a busy airport. Auto FPS usually targets 90FPS - so in flight I get much higher LODs (800/300)and at landing I get lower LODs (like 300/200). 

ps. A higher TLOD does not help reveal any ship traffic. In fact, I’m not sure there’s a noticeable diffrrrbce at all with a TLOD over 400. 

I'm also an enthusiastic user of AutoFPS.  It's logic that should have been included in the sim itself for sure.  I've found I get exceptional visuals using TLOD 500 and OLOD 400.

TLOD, or Terrain Level of Detail, primarily impacts the visual quality of the terrain and objects in the distance. It affects how much detail the simulator renders for terrain, buildings, and other objects as you fly further away from the aircraft. Higher TLOD settings increase the draw distance and detail of distant objects, but can also significantly impact performance.

OLOD (Object Level of Detail) primarily affects how far away objects like buildings, ground vehicles, and other static scenery are rendered, influencing both visual quality and performance. Essentially, it dictates how much detail is displayed at varying distances from the player's viewpoint. 

So, neither will affect ship or aircraft traffic, its purely down to model LODS.  IIRC the GAIST package has recently been updated with improved model LODS so if you use this make sure you've updated it.

11 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

Can you share your AutoFPS settings? How did you get OLOD 1.000, did you modify Usercfg.opt manually or does AutoFPS take care of that too?

Sure. 

I don't use frame generation. FPS capped in MSFS 2024 at 60 fps, which is my monitor refresh rate. Target FPS in AutoFPS=60.

Auto method=FPS Cap

TLOD Base=50, TLOD Top=400

OLOD @ Base = 1000, OLOD @ Top = 1000 (in other words, it's always at 1000)

In a previous version of AutoFPS, you couldn't set OLOD in the GUI, you had to edit the cfg file. But Reset changed it; now you can specify your OLOD in the GUI again.

With the above settings, I get TLOD=300 on the ground and TLOD=800 in flight, OLOD=1000 always, at 60 fps (locked).

 

15 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Let me know how you get on. I tried 1000 with auto LOD and it didn’t make a blind bit of difference, so excuse my scepticism. 

I just did a quick test at EGLL with the drone (Shift+X). With AutoFPS and Prolixindec settings, in my opinion the pop in is reduced but still present, compared to fixed OLOD @ 200.

I will do a test flight later when I have time, to see if it applies to contrails as well.

During the test without AutoFPS I kept TLOD at 50 to avoid differences due to TLOD. I restarted the sim between tests. VRAM usage was about 80% in both tests with no warning messages.

P.S. Notice the "real" traffic/airport activity nonsense and the amount of generic liveries... nothing like what Asobo advertised in the trailers 😠

1st test: AutoFPS with OLOD fixed at 1000 and TLOD 50-400, 60 fps target with FG

 

2nd test: TLOD 50, OLOD 200, no AutoFPS

 

 

19 hours ago, Krakin said:

You have to recognize when some people just have an agenda. That comparison to politicians was just ridiculous.

Well, not really if you consider all the promises that were made during the last 5 years.

There is a long list of things that never happened: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/675460-msfs-2024-live-ship-traffic-is-a-disappointment/#findComment-5522185

 

We were told most 2020 add-ons would work with 2024 - and some would have taken that on face value and purchased 2024 thinking they would not have to pay out more hard earned cash on 3rd party upgrades for existing products - did you think that would be the case?

re 3rd party Devs, it maybe frustrating for them having to spend time with the LOD changes and everything else to make their products compatible, but it gives them the opportunity to re-sell those products for ££££

it is what it is

 

Edited July 22, 2025Jul 22 by hanhamreds