The scenery is grief inducing...definitely a huge step back wards and un-acceptable.

21 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

FL410 - don't get up there much in my GA!  Maybe soon as I am learning the Hotstart Challenger 650.  I'm on a flight over the NE USA at 5000ft, so I slewed up to get the following image.

Hehe, the image I posted was taken by me from 41K feet over the midwest was out of the real Lear 45 I was in the other day, out a super clear new cabin window.  I thought it was very telling for just how blurry the real world can be!  Looks as bad or worse than anything in our sims!  Again for your viewing pleasure:


 

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Hehe, the image I posted was taken by me from 41K feet over the midwest was out of the real Lear 45 I was in the other day, out a super clear new cabin window.  I thought it was very telling for just how blurry the real world can be!  Looks as bad or worse than anything in our sims!  Again for your viewing pleasure:

You’re absolutely right, the real world can vary wildly between crystal-clear skies and thick haze.

Here’s another screenshot I took over California in XP12. I’ve been using it more lately because I find the atmospheric rendering, especially visibility and haze layers, often feels more true to life. MSFS 2024 looks stunning, no doubt, but sometimes the default conditions can be a bit too clear compared to what you'd actually see on a hazy summer day. Your real-life shot is a perfect example of how limited visibility can be.

Not trying to knock MSFS — it’s a fantastic sim with amazing visuals, but I’ve really been appreciating the realism XP12 brings in terms of weather and lighting. If more true to life visibility is important to you, have a look at this. You will have to go to the captions to auto translate to English.  Watch through the video to see how this visibility changes through the flight.

On 7/26/2025 at 3:17 AM, sloppysmusic said:

After couple weeks tweaking p3dv5 I'm back for some MSFS (for the scenery of course!). Started Map Enhancement mod and see this (to me) worrying message.

Is this good or bad? Are we pc users being 'mandatory downgraded' for the console market or streamlined of stuff we don't need for better default performance? 

I'm not restarting the mod yet, gonna have one last flight in hi-res mode (unless MSFS will of course just kill this option on start). 

Will those of us who spend time and money tweaking high end pc systems to get the best possible quality scenery (LS/AutoFPS etc) going to see a loss of quality (at ALL flight levels) or am I just worrying over a feature that makes ZERO tangible difference in the game/sim?

If I've missed a thread that discusses this already please redirect me!

This program absolutely wrecked my install and possibly my pc. A huge warning for anyone chasing that dragon. I get colored spikes everywhere that people blame the graphics card or drivers which is just simply not true… 

5 hours ago, Noel said:

 I thought it was very telling for just how blurry the real world can be!  Looks as bad or worse than anything in our sims!  Again for your viewing pleasure:

Thanks for sharing! Yes the real world can look as blurry as a poorly coded sim too. Especially if you used a poor camera with low bit rate resolution and cheap cellphone lens you haven't cleaned in a week. Or take a photo after several glasses of business class /chartered private jet complimentary booze 🥃😉🤓📸😏😁. 

Or... With a good camera and technique it can look.. Real! Or to put it another way, exactly as our eyes see it. (Eyes and brain have cutting edge image stabilisation, focus, dof, color correction/white balance , face recognition and auto exposure btw). 

Never accept mediocrity when excellence is within your reach. 

The atmospheric colours/haze/lighting in MrBitstflyer's latest XP12 screenshot remind me of what I am seeing in my current MSFS 2020 dusk flights. Very nice 👍

8 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

The atmospheric colours/haze/lighting in MrBitstflyer's latest XP12 screenshot remind me of what I am seeing in my current MSFS 2020 dusk flights. Very nice

I haven’t flown MSFS2020 in about 10 months, but back then I found dusk lighting a bit flat. What I’m seeing now in XP12 feels much more natural—especially the haze, lighting transitions, and overall atmosphere. It’s one of the areas where XP12 is really shining, along with its strong flight dynamics and weather.

That said, it’s great to hear MSFS is improving with atmosphere realism - and the latest Fenix Airbus update looks fantastic. Always good to see both sims pushing the hobby forward.

17 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Or to put it another way, exactly as our eyes see it.

My iPhone 14 image looked exactly as it did to my eyes which is why I shared it here.

Here we are at KBJC getting ready to board this Lear 45,  I was blown away by how snug the cockpit was!  I had to do some origami to get into the Captain's seat!

And another shot w/ much less haze from 41K feet:

 

Edited July 29, 2025Jul 29 by Noel

20 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Not trying to knock MSFS — it’s a fantastic sim with amazing visuals, but I’ve really been appreciating the realism XP12 brings in terms of weather and lighting. If more true to life visibility is important to you, have a look at this. You will have to go to the captions to auto translate to English.  Watch through the video to see how this visibility changes through the flight.

I see stuff very similar to this video regularly in 2024.  If I was new to the FS world, shopping for a direction to go, I'd definitely look much deeper into XP.  But I'm not and what I see in XP12 is nowhere near enough to nudge me out of MSFS 2024 it's just too similar ultimately--not the same, just way too similar.  You could have said the video in that link was done in 2024 and I would have been fooled to believe it was.  Also, I'd in general favor greater visibility than haze.  After all, why have fabulous ortho that you can hardly see.  But sure, you're saying it matches RW potential conditions more accurately, so be it, at the moment anyway.

I've not heard much about performance with maxed visuals along w/ the add-ons required to compete ortho-wise w/ 2024, w/ the most complex planes, airports, etc?  Are you able to maintain at least 50FPS-native, fully smooth, after fully tricked out?

It is great to see XP evolving as it is.  Not only is competition good (MSFS clearly played a role in LR's quest to improve XP) but always nice to have another option if one option fails.  And XP could fail as well, unlikely perhaps, but possible for certain.  

44 minutes ago, Noel said:

I see stuff very similar to this video regularly in 2024.  If I was new to the FS world, shopping for a direction to go, I'd definitely look much deeper into XP.  But I'm not and what I see in XP12 is nowhere near enough to nudge me out of MSFS 2024 it's just too similar ultimately--not the same, just way too similar.  You could have said the video in that link was done in 2024 and I would have been fooled to believe it was.  Also, I'd in general favor greater visibility than haze.  After all, why have fabulous ortho that you can hardly see.  But sure, you're saying it matches RW potential conditions more accurately, so be it, at the moment anyway.

Totally fair view, and I respect your choice. When you're already deep into MSFS with add-ons and a setup that works for you, moving over to something like XP12 becomes a lot harder—especially when the overall experience initially feels more similar than different. That said, if you do spend real time in XP12, its unique strengths and benefits do start to stand out. MSFS 2024 has a lot going for it, and I get sticking with what delivers the most for your needs. Still, it’s great to see XP continuing to improve. Good to have strong alternatives! Personally, I just run both MSFS and XP12 to get the best of what each sim offers.

44 minutes ago, Noel said:

I've not heard much about performance with maxed visuals along w/ the add-ons required to compete ortho-wise w/ 2024, w/ the most complex planes, airports, etc?  Are you able to maintain at least 50FPS-native, fully smooth, after fully tricked out?

I have everything in XP12 maxed out, preferring visual fidelity over FPS chasing.  At fully maxed out I will see up to 100fps in rural areas, dropping to around 40fps over somewhere like Los Angeles.  If I come back a little on the settings I can get a stable 60fps.  Of course, running Lossless Scaling will give me 80-180fps (I do however run without it).

I use the Map Enhancement Tool for ortho. As you know, it's free, but I use the Pro version to get high-res terrain - it's a shame that is no longer available to MSFS. I haven't noticed any impact on performance.

EDIT - In 12.3 apparently XP12 is going multi core and I have seen mention of a 40% improvement in fps!

Edited July 29, 2025Jul 29 by MrBitstFlyer
Added paragraph

This still is taken at the only airport that is apparently enhanced some in the XP12 demo, LOWS.  One would safely assume they did their best to make this shine.  After all, it's in the demo.  

Is this image from XP12 or 2024?


Is this image from XP12 or 2024?

22 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

EDIT - In 12.3 apparently XP12 is going multi core and I have seen mention of a 40% improvement in fps!

I read a decade ago or more XP was already rather multi core friendly.  That 40% claim would have to depend on what role the GPU is playing in XP12.3 as well presumably.  When discussion about 2024's massive increase in polygon rendering was first mentioned I had posted a thread here that I hope the lion's share of that somehow went towards cloud depiction, but it doesn't seem to have, and instead went towards polygon ground objects.  That may be because it really could not impact cloud depiction meaningfully.  Or because MS aimed to continue focus on enhancing their digital twin goal. It will be interesting to see what XP does with greater multicore optimization.  Since you are GA only it seems I'll guess performance is a bit better in 2024 currently.

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

This still is taken at the only airport that is apparently enhanced some in the XP12 demo, LOWS

Personally, I think you need to use ortho in XP12 with the Map Enhancement Tool to make a fair comparison. Some XP12 users are perfectly happy with the default terrain, but I find it lacking.

By the way, your 2024 shot looks great as well 😊.

Could this thread be yet another less is more example?

dd

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Is this image from XP12 or 2024?

You may want to hide the handlebar next time lmao