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scott967

IFR Flight Plan Knowledge

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Oh yes-I have had a few on the ground and a few in the air at very bad times-especially in the New York area.But they unfortunately rarely match my long clearances (flight plans) :-lolA month ago I flew from Nashua, Hh to Parkersburg, Wv. They screwed up and didn't have my flight plan on file ( more and more common lately) and then gave me a pop up-that was at least a page long of full routes, airways and fixes.Of course after spending many minutes figuring it out and putting it in the gps-once off in the air the completely changed it-to another full route clearance. Shortly thereafter the same thing happened. Then a few negotiations to deviate for tstorms and finally taking pic authority to do so.Then once over Allentown, Pa-the controller asked me what my direct heading was to my destination. When I sounded surprised after all that he said he wanted to get me going to where I wanted as soon as possible and cleared me direct. Nice guy!GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Exactly-as in my experience even when getting a complicated clearance on the ground it is usually changed to a much simpler one once airborne. I really have not figured out yet what flightaware reports..GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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I'm pretty sure the flight plan it shows is the initial "filed" one. If the filed one gets amended after departure, I don't think FlightAware updates the "Route", but continues to show the initially filed flightplan.Reason I say this is because you can open up a "status" window for any current flight that shows the waypoints in the flightplan, and the time and altitude of the aircraft when it crossed each one. Many times this information doesn't seem to agree with the "Route" flightplan shown for the flight. So my assumption is the intial route got ammended after departure, and the "log status" of the flight then doesn't agree with the original "Route" shown anymore. I see this a lot on the "red eye" flights for like FedEx, where they would get a lot of "direct" amendments after departure.That's just my guess.FalconAF


Rick Ryan

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It must be more complicated as for example today I filed direct from Martin state to hts:http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7345R/...1530Z/KMTN/KHTSIn my clearance on the ground they ammended it to a radar vector to join victor 44 and then Martinsburg vor-direct.Flightaware shows this clearance.When I got to Hts I filed direct to ptk.Clearance del. said they were sorry and needed to send me first to a fix and then direct which I did due to a hot restricted area. Shortly after takeoff they told me the area was now not hot and gave me direct.Flightaware in this case does not show the ground clearance but just says n/a which seems to be the code for direct:http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7345R/...1910Z/KHTS/KPTKOn the one I mentioned above from Nashua-it has the full route I got on the ground from clearance:http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7345R/...1822Z/KASH/KPKBWhich of course is not what I flew once in the air.So I think Flightaware sometimes gets something, and sometimes gets nothing. I have also noticed when you fly over bodies of water or Canadian airspace it drops you completely.In any case-at best it seems it gets sometimes the ground clearance-which may be rarely what is actually flown.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Hi Geof,I am based at FME inside the DC ADIZ and fly IFR all the time. Looking at your flightaware track, seems like you got cleared to MRB then EMI direct to MTN.In my experience, around a busy terminal area (Class :(, if you file the preferred route, that's what you'll get. No matter what I file from under the BWI Class B to anywhere else, or from the NYC area, I always get assigned the preferred route. In fact, I have flightaware alerts set up to SMS my cell phone, so as soon as I file, I get a text message with my preliminary ATC route that the FAA computer spits out, and it's always the same as the pref route.Outside of a busy terminal area, you'll likely get direct. So my advice is, if you're going to be near a busy terminal such as NYC or BWI, check the preferred routes and plan on getting that. If your flight takes you away from a busy area, plan on following the initial fixes of a preferred route, then direct.. then passing through the preferred routes in any busy areas you pass through.What's ironic is, my real-life IFR flight planning generally consists of checking recent flightaware routes, plus recent ATC clearances on fltplan.com. Planning and filing on that, and that's what I generally get. I then familiarize myself with airways / fixes / vors along the way incase I get rerouted, I at least have an idea where they're sending me.In the air, ATC usually clears you direct or gives vectors for traffic anyway, so really, my planning comes down to studying what is most likely to happen on a given flight by studying the above tools... making sure I'm aware of all of the options.

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"I am based at FME inside the DC ADIZ and fly IFR all the time. Looking at your flightaware track, seems like you got cleared to MRB then EMI direct to MTN."I was given the Westminster five Star However-I was already well within it at that time -but I set the remaining waypoints.Then I was told to go direct to Martinsburg. Before I could get there I was told to go direct to ruane. Before I could get there I was told to go direct to Westminster...and you guessed it-before getting to Wesminster I was cleared direct to Martin State.I understand your reasoning and my Voyager flight planner actually includes the prefered routes. In my experience I have never really get to them-or if instructed to do them I never complete them.Therefore-that is why I just file direct-since atc seems to have a mind of its own depending on local conditions, weather, winds and traffic. I certainly do look at what is likely-but even if everything has/had been preprogrammed and planned -the original clearance:mrb-ruane-emi-mtn -none of these legs was ever completed which also requires more button pushes. I guess I just find it easier to find out what is going to happen, than to preprogram and find out it isn't going to happen. I just looked at all my recent flights on flightaware and again the majority came back n/a-e.g. direct. The ones that were ammended usually didn't happen in the air-at least much.P.S I really respect you flying in that area. What a scary mess!GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Guest byoungblood

>>>I just file in my flight plan "direct". >>Do you just say "direct" or perhaps you pick an IAF from which>you want to start your approach and file direct to this IAF?.>Selection of a specific IAF may give ATC a hint that your>prefer this approach over something else ...>>Michael J.>http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpgBest advice so far. I'm not sure if this is still true, but at one time the FAAs computers couldn't recognize an airport as being part of a route. So if you tried filing "CSG KAUO" the computer would puke. Of course it could take it as a destination airport, but if it was listed as any part of a route, it didn't like it. So if you're filing IFR, you really always want to file to a nearby fix, preferably one that is a charted holding point or as suggested, an IAF for the approach you would like to use.A former ZTL controller wrote a series of articles for AvWeb a few years back that is VERY good reading. Tons of information on radio phraseology, IFR flight plans, and communicating with ATC. http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/list.html

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I haven't ever gotten one nearby fix I have ever filed-why I gave up.For instance in Detroit-we know score,aants are probably fixes for heading south depending on direction. The other day I got direct, a few earlier I got score, another week I got one I had never heard of and today I got aants.It depends on the runways Dtw is using at that moment and the traffic flow-getting the fix you file is a crap shoot and I seldom win-they will however tell you the one they want you to go to.As I mentioned above- I yesterday was flying from mtn to ged. Take a look at that restricted area overlying mtn-my briefer told me it was hot. I filed a nice fix to take me beyond it thinking that would be the polite thing to do. Atc instead gave me direct right thru it.Better atc to decide imho. I used to spend hours planning and then figured out since I wasn't gonna get what I planned much better to just take what I was given. If they know you are /g they seem to really try to help you go that way as closely as possible.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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>P.S I really respect you flying in that area. What a scary mess!I learned to fly in it, post-ADIZ. It's really not so bad once you know the ADIZ rules, but I agree... if I were from out of the area and were trying to plan a flight near the ADIZ, I'd be terrified. IFR, however, the ADIZ rules are much simpler. Had you filed to any airport within the ADIZ while IFR, you would not have noticed much of anything different. For example, had you filed to FME, you probably would have been told to go direct Westminster (EMI), then vectored to FME if in VMC, or cleared for the GPS 10 approach. The only difference in the ADIZ is, *never* squawk 1200. If you cancel IFR in the air, the controller will remind you to "keep your code" until you're on the ground. Other than that, IFR at least, the ADIZ really is transparent... There are some good airports inside of it, so next time you're in the area, don't be afraid to come in!I completely agree with what you're saying about just wanting to file direct, because you just never fly what you're cleared. I have *never* flown a full IFR route without being cleared direct to another waypoint or vectored at some point. HOWEVER, the reason I do try to file what I know I'll be cleared is:1) I can avoid copying a long clearance on the ground or in the air. Filing the preferred routes, I hear "Cleared as filed" nearly 99% of the time. Yes, I know it will change once airborne, but it saves time when copying clearances.2) I think in the busier terminals, ATC expects you to file the preferred routes to some degree. I once filed direct from FME to N14 on one of my early IFR flights and when I called Potomac Approach to get my clearance, the controller actually yelled at me and told me I "cannot do that." He said he has to manually figure out my routing and I need to call back in *15* minutes. After that, I never filed direct again out of FME. HOWEVER, if I were in wide open country, I'd be filing direct all the time.Also, and this is more for the benefit of others reading this thread... Some people may be wondering why ATC bothers to give you these long-winded clearances just to change them once you're airborne. The reason is that the full-length clearance is what ATC is giving you permission to fly. There are a lot more rules, but put simply, in the event of communications failure, this full routing is what ATC will expect you to fly. They will be clearing other traffic out of your way as you proceed on your full routing, even if you can't talk to them. Once you're airborne and communicating, ATC can start giving you short-cuts or vectors / changes for whatever reason.Anyway, trying to figure out ATC is always interesting. Depends where you are, who you're talking to and what's going on that day I guess.

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Very good ideas.Yes you are right about the adiz for an "outsider. I have flown to Leesburg several times before 9/11 but reading the notams on the adiz which are a few pages long now are intimidating for an outsider. It seems to get tighter every year. I know you are supposed to be covered flying ifr-but you think about those multi colored lights and the fighter escorts and you get nervous.I feel sorry for College Park etc. that were viable airports before 9/11.It is really sad imho that no terrorist attack has been done by a GA aircraft and the ability of one to do any significant damage is quite questionable-yet we are the ones that seem to have to have paid the penalty ... after all-the 2nd worse attack was done with trucks with manure (okc)-yet the rules there seem less than what GA is faced with.Anyway-having lived in Baltimore in the way past for 5 years I really enjoyed Martin State-and the views of D.C., Baltimore, and the trip to Delaware, Cape May-and the cool museum there were incredible.I have an obsession to land in all the US states-only Iowa is left now (I guess technically D.C, but that seems rather impossible now).At least my 1 remaining state of Iowa should be simple.. in compare.. :lolAnyone know something cool to see in Iowa? I need an mission..GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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thanks for passing some RW idea of how it's done.Writing of DC, there used to be a decent airport south of ADW, is that still going? I used to drive by Freeway Airport everyday. I see they drew the ADIZ around that airport.scott s..

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