Anyone use American Flyer's IFR Refresher "Missions"

[zfehr 1]

Here's the lesson selection screen from inside FSX, the eleven lessons comprise a total of 13 flights... actually 14 flights, the GPS approaches training is split into two flights.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/193150.jpg

[Geofa 108]

I know it isn't for fsx-but doesn't the On Top IP simulator do the same at much less cost? I haven't looked at it for about 2 years but it had excellent mission/adventures and an instructor talking you thru with a critic after the flight.I see there is a new version of their sim now that includes a g1000 and reality xp 430. I might have to take a look at it again(the package of both)-though it sounds like the 430 might not work with vista. I see they have a demo to download.http://www.asa2fly.com/On-Top-Demo-C151_category.aspxhttp://www.asa2fly.com/IP-Trainer-7--P593_product1.aspxGeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[zfehr 1]

Download the demo of On Top. I've got the current On Top, IP Trainer, Elite, FAA certified X-Plane and none of them compare with the visuals FS9/FSX can provide. On Top is maybe on par with FS98 and only in some ways. X-Plane comes the closest to the visuals but so far no pre-recorded adventure type training scenarios. On Top and Elite have good scenarios but you run into a cost/benefit ratio and for home use my personal opinion is the AF package gives the home simmer a better value by providing far superior visuals.

[Geofa 108]

That is what I thought. I did find the scenerios fantastic though on the ip trainer-but the interface looked like something from the 90's.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Manny 1,293]

Is there a new On Top "IP Trainer"? Really?I have the one that was available 3 years ago. I love that. So for I have not seen anything that comes close to it for IFR Training. Thats like an IFR instructor sitting next to you like in real world. The only issue I had with it was, it was very difficult to tune the radios on time using the mouse/keyboard. I would always end up being too slow. It required their custom avionics hardware which cannot be use for FSim. I thought the original programmers who wrote that left or something and the firm has given up on upgrading the IP Trainer to accommodate new technology and hardware.Manny K..I checked..Its IP Trainer 7., Which is what I have. and they are absolutely right when they say."IP Trainer is the only IFR simulator with a foundation of artificial intelligence in the form of a virtual instrument flight instructor (CFII), the only interactive courseware designed exclusively for instrument students, and the only program that can compare its knowledge of the Instrument Rating Practical Test Standards against a student's real-time flight simulation performance."For $160 its a bargain. even without me having the radio hardware for it. The number of IFR lessons there is probably more than 25-40 lessons... with each one at different level/mode. from 1) Your instructor doing everything to the other extreme, you doing everything and getting evaluated, and 2 or three in between modes. I sometime, just watch the Instructor do everything and simply watch.... That alone is worth the $160 bucks IMO.If American Flyers really think their stuff is really good.. they should put one lesson as freeware for people to check out.

[zfehr 1]

>>If American Flyers really think their stuff is really good..>they should put one lesson as freeware for people to check>out.>And why should they have to do that? American Flyers is a very large organization with a fantastic worldwide reputation. No offense meant to you directly Manny but I can tell you that they really don't have an interest in the entertainment simming crowd and their efforts are geared towards real pilots. They turned down an offer to review this software for that very reason. I thought it was good enough that AVSIM readers should know about it but that is not their intended market and they really didn't feel like getting involved with the payware hatemongers. I have IP trainer, it doesn't compare. It was great in its own time but graphics and simulated environment have progressed manyfold since its writing.

[Manny 1,293]

fair enough.Since you had IPTrainer, You really think that their stuff is good and worth the cost? for real IFR students I mean.I am curious. In IPTrainer, you can't deviate very much from what you are supposed to do. Does the American flyer have the same standard?Mind you, using IF Trainer with a CFII, you can log official hrs in your Pilot log book for a reason.Manny

[zfehr 1]

Hi Manny,The American Flyers course is expensive... they have a package for IFR students, the IFR refresher (which is what they started with and the two are probably very close to each other), and also one for Private Pilot familiarization. With FS9/FSX there is no certification for logging the time, even if a CFII was present and even doing it using the PFC Cirrus II Cat II hardware I have which works with FS9/FSX (it is certified using X-Plane). If you complete the adventures and stay within certain criteria you are congratulated, if you don't you are told to work on them more. If someone is working on their IFR ticket or are IFR rated but rusty and needing to prep for an instrument proficiency check these would be very helpful and probably save them some real world time in the aircraft which with an instrument instructor gets pricey real quick. The cost of this package can easily be justified in the reduced time it will take to get familiarity when you are doing it in the real aircraft. For the simmer that is looking for entertainment and is not a real pilot I wouldn't recommend buying these unless they have money to burn. Even with the IP trainer program to log simulator time you also have to purchase the hardware which once again is real expensive. While my PFC Cat II hardware will work with the IP trainer (and On Top) it doesn't have the certification for those programs so it won't count for logging time.

[Geofa 108]

I think this thread demonstrates that there is a market out there for rw training scenerios for rw pilots (and simmers also).I had been hoping that the "missions" of fsx would encourage more development in this department, but haven't seen much.Then there is the one I have been pushing for (as ifr gets fairly routine after a while and things like ndb approaches and holds while useful don't happen that often)- missions based on real world documented emergencies (like the I learned from this in Flying magazine every month).Give the sim pilot the same situation where someone had a good/not good outcome and see how your decision making compares. Great training potential that might save a future life here.There is much rw potential with fsx that just hasn't been explored yet. The emergency side is what interests me as imho fsx is a perfect platform to explore the surprise, pucker factor, decision making factor, and viewing of subsequent results without paying the ultimate price.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest dougwells]

That is exactly what I would like to see. I've set up the sim to replicate various IFR Magazine (excellent) and other scenarios and this work well. So much more powerful if a "mission" could be set up, you fly it yourself first (without reading about the incident). Then, see what happens. Afterwards, debrief and read the accident summary report. I think we would all be horrified to see that many of these real world accidents could happen to us if we do not keep sharp and on top of it.Doug

[zfehr 1]

I'm sure with you on this Geof. Back when Richard L Collins retired 40RC I tried to pull every string I knew to get in contact with or a message to Mr Collins to have his P210 made for the sim and to include missions designed from a collection of the flights he had written about and used in his Air Facts series. To no avail, all roads seem to lead to ausfahrt so I finally dropped it. Maybe AOPA or Flying magazine would take up an interest and have a monthly never again mission designed for FSX. The resort supply mission supplied with FSX is one of my favorites and I wish that there were more designed like that one.

[Geofa 108]

For the aopa members-they have recreated an entire vfr into imc accident on msfs-and this is exactly the type of missions I think would be great both for rw flyers and simmers!http://flash.aopa.org/asf/acs_vfrimc/GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[zfehr 1]

Now while we only get to watch the video of the FSX flight, this kind of mission/adventure is exactly what I was hoping I could interest Richard L Collins into being involved with. Take incidents such as this and recreate the flightpath, weather and give the sim pilot the opportunity to walk that path through the decision making. Now an area that the sim will allow simmers to "cheat" through bad conditions is you don't get a good (if any) simulation of loss of lift, increased drag and eventual loss of flyability from icing encounters. You can also provide control inputs in the sim that would tear the real aircraft apart. There would have to be an effort in the programming to have a "last clear chance" where after that decision is made the dice are cast and you are eventually going to not be able to continue flight be it loss of control from icing or thunderstorm encounter, exhaustion of fuel or controlled flight into terrain from continued VFR into IMC conditions.Thanks for the heads up Geof, that was a good lesson.

[Geofa 108]

It is amazing-down to following the car traffic on the highway as he got boxed in. I drool for the same thing...GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[zfehr 1]

You know Geof, I recalled an ASF course I had taken some time ago that did have some flight scenarios at the end. It was their Weather Wise:Ceiling and Visibility course and at the end you got flights for MSFS. These will work in FS9 or FSX and you should be able to find there here with your AOPA membership: http://www.aopa.org/asf/online_courses/wea.../scenarios.html