40 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I must admit I was once in the 'default XP12 scenery is awful' camp. I decided to install a second vanilla copy of XP12 for beta testing, and over time I began to appreciate that the default terrain and autogen weren't as awful as I originally thought. I mentioned in a separate thread that the truly great features in XP12, like the flight model, weather, and lighting, make the autogen and terrain feel more like supporting elements, rather than the main focus to be stared at.

 

I'm mainly a GA flyer, so terrain and autogen are important to me. I've used MSFS 2020/2024 since release, but I now find the XP12 world to be far more believable. Individual features in each sim can be applauded or criticized, but it's how they gel together that really matters.

It could be argued that MSFS has the prettiest terrain and autogen, but that alone doesn't make a sim believable. Now, the overall world in XP12 feels more realistic to my eyes.

Well, there’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying. And we definitely agree at some level, because I’m in XP every week!

not to disparage either sim because they are both great at what they’re great at:

I fly XP when I’m on a mission for highly realistic aircraft handling in very well modeled atmospheric conditions  

I fly MSFS when the mission is sight seeing with a healthy level of aircraft realism. 

there’s a LOT of shades of gray in there, of course. 
 

but IMHO, if one were fundamentally “better” than the other, I’d only be flying that one. 👍

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Were not enjoying the scenery, were enduring it. Like Brussel Sprouts  

Some of us love our brussel sprouts. Endure what. Its fine.

27 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Attention apostille (might be a slightly exxagerated 😄) ...

1. The typical MSFS user: buys a flightsimulator. Searches on the internet for hints how to make it look prettier. Buys lots of addon airports. Buys lots of environment addons. Buys lots of 'immersion' addons like passengers simulation. Buys lots of AI traffic addons. Buys lots of ground services addons. Starts to doubt if his PC can handle all that. Researches which CPU can handle that. Researches which GPU can handle that. Buys a new CPU. Buys a new GPU. After weeks and months of tweaking and twiddling starts for the first time the enigne of his plane and takes off.
2. The typical XP user: buys a flightsimulator. Does it the other way round (apart from starting the plane and taking off).

😂

It's like people who are constantly tweaking their car and say ‘that's where the fun is’. Would they drive it around - ‘Oh God no, the fun is in the constant optimisation’.

 

24 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

Yes. The download and conversion times are the reason why my interest in AO fizzled out after a single flight. No fun when you get an overworked server and XP hangs for a few minutes while the orthos are downloading.

Exactly this ...

1 hour ago, flying_carpet said:

Attention apostille (might be a slightly exxagerated 😄) ...

1. The typical MSFS user: buys a flightsimulator. Searches on the internet for hints how to make it look prettier. Buys lots of addon airports. Buys lots of environment addons. Buys lots of 'immersion' addons like passengers simulation. Buys lots of AI traffic addons. Buys lots of ground services addons. Starts to doubt if his PC can handle all that. Researches which CPU can handle that. Researches which GPU can handle that. Buys a new CPU. Buys a new GPU. After weeks and months of tweaking and twiddling starts for the first time the enigne of his plane and takes off.
2. The typical XP user: buys a flightsimulator. Does it the other way round (apart from starting the plane and taking off).

I'm a typical FS 2024 simmer.

Am using FS 2024 vanilla mostly, although I did buy a few aircraft addons, but default:

- weather

- ATC

- most of the aircraft I use with the sim

- scenery

and I know a few other users who are following the same lane... Believe me, FS 2024 default is great ! just as Xp12 ...

Just as with Xp12, I don't have to spend much time optimizing FS 2024 because it is very optimized at it's core, and works beautifully in my mid/low-end rig...

Honestly @flying_carpet, don't worry about FS 2024 if you don't like it - save your time for 100% X-Plane ! but just don't assume we FS 2024 users are unhappy / frustrated or blind / casual simmers... I am not, if that counts, and at 61 yo I've been using flightsims since my late 20s and honestly consider FS 2024 one of the best flightsims I have ever used ...

Edited August 6, 2025Aug 6 by jcomm

25 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I'm a typical FS 2024 simmer.

Am using FS 2024 vanilla mostly, although I did buy a few aircraft addons, but default:

- weather

- ATC

- most of the aircraft I use with the sim

- scenery

and I know a few other users who are following the same lane... Believe me, FS 2024 default is great ! just as Xp12 ...

Just as with Xp12, I don't have to spend much time optimizing FS 2024 because it is very optimized at it's core, and works beautifully in my mid/ow-end rig...

Honestly @flying_carpet, don't worry about FS 2024 if you don't like it - save your time for 100% X-Plane ! but just don't assume we FS 2024 users are unhappy / frustrated or blind / casual simmers... I am not, if that counts, and at 61 yo I've been using flightsims since my late 20s and honestly consider FS 2024 one of the best flightsims I have ever used ...

I wouldn't describe you as the 'typical' MSFS user. You also question some things, which the ‘typical’ MS user as I describe him, does rather rarely.
I know people who started with MSFS^* (also older versions like FSX, FS9, ...) and did exactly (attention, I'm exxagerating 😉) collecting addons as 'main purpose'. Then, these people discovered X-Plane and learned to do flying as 'main purpose' and instead of sightseeing. To each their own, no issues - this world is big enough for all of us 🙂.

* Me too, BTW.

Edited August 6, 2025Aug 6 by flying_carpet

19 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

I wouldn't describe you as the 'typical' MSFS user. You also question some things, which the ‘typical’ MS user as I describe him, does rather rarely.
I know people who started with MSFS^* (also older versions like FSX, FS9, ...) and did exactly (attention, I'm exagerating 😉) collecting addons as 'main purpose'. Then, these people discovered X-Plane and learned to do flying as 'main purpose' and instead of sightseeing. To each their own, no issues - this world is big enough for all of us 🙂.

* Me too, BTW.

I used to be very critic about every sim I used... This mindset has changed, most definitely during the last year, and I become a much more satisfied simmer... I gave up trying to focus only on what I don't like and instead try to focus mainly in what each flightsim has to offer the best way it does... 

I love Xp12 and FS 2024, and just don't add to the list a few more because I simply don't have time to play them 🙂

Right now, for instance, I am willing to get ready for Xp12.3 and what it'll bring, so I am trying to create a base setup that will run smoothly in my rig.

 

Edited August 6, 2025Aug 6 by jcomm

1 hour ago, flying_carpet said:

The typical MSFS user: buys a flightsimulator. Searches on the internet for hints how to make it look prettier. Buys lots of addon airports. Buys lots of environment addons. Buys lots of 'immersion' addons like passengers simulation. Buys lots of AI traffic addons. Buys lots of ground services addons. Starts to doubt if his PC can handle all that. Researches which CPU can handle that. Researches which GPU can handle that. Buys a new CPU. Buys a new GPU. After weeks and months of tweaking and twiddling starts for the first time the enigne of his plane and takes off.

Haha, there’s some truth to this from my point of view. Every new aircraft released for MSFS somehow found its way into my sim, as I searched for that perfect one that truly felt like it moved through the air. And for a sim lauded for its scenery, I still spent countless hours searching for, and purchasing, more scenery.

 

1 hour ago, flying_carpet said:

The typical XP user: buys a flightsimulator. Does it the other way round (apart from starting the plane and taking off).

MSFS is often praised for its scenery and aircraft, yet I found myself constantly buying planes and scenery. XP12, which many say isn’t as strong visually, didn’t require anything beyond a twin and single-prop - just a small fee for the Pro version of MET.  The world feels complete and believable, with excellent aircraft straight out of the box.

 

1 hour ago, Bjoern said:

Brussels Sprouts (or "rose cabbage" in German) are a delicacy, best enjoyed with meatballs and potatoes.

I prefer mine roasted with olive oil and liberally sprinkled with salt & pepper 😎

but I’ll take just Steak over just Brussels Sprouts every time 😁

1 hour ago, flying_carpet said:

Attention apostille (might be a slightly exxagerated 😄) ...

1. The typical MSFS user: buys a flightsimulator. Searches on the internet for hints how to make it look prettier. Buys lots of addon airports. Buys lots of environment addons. Buys lots of 'immersion' addons like passengers simulation. Buys lots of AI traffic addons. Buys lots of ground services addons. Starts to doubt if his PC can handle all that. Researches which CPU can handle that. Researches which GPU can handle that. Buys a new CPU. Buys a new GPU. After weeks and months of tweaking and twiddling starts for the first time the enigne of his plane and takes off.
2. The typical XP user: buys a flightsimulator. Does it the other way round (apart from starting the plane and taking off).

I spend WAAAAY more time adding stuff to XP than I do in MSFS. 

and tho I can get good performance AND good looks out of XP, what MSFS delivers in that regard out of the box far exceeds XP.

29 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

MSFS is often praised for its scenery and aircraft, yet I found myself constantly buying planes and scenery. XP12, which many say isn’t as strong visually, didn’t require anything beyond a twin and single-prop - just a small fee for the Pro version of MET.  The world feels complete and believable, with excellent aircraft straight out of the box.

 

Regardless of sim, I gotta have payware aircraft. Tho the Defaults in both are better than ever, so are the Paywares. 👍

There've been many moments where I've had to do a double take and zoom on ground textures to make sure that it actually was default and that I'd need to redo an ortho tile. Certainly not all the time, but it's good enough that it's just fine for most flights. I do however instantly notice when simheaven has been disabled for whatever reason.