I hadn't flown the iFly 737 MAX in a while, and last week was the first time I've flown it in extremely hot conditions (KLAS.) I've always loved the way this plane handles, even in 2024, but my latest flight was an absolute mess. The plane was wobbly in both pitch and roll on approach.

Initially I thought SU3 beta was the culprit, but below you can see XP72 having the same issue in calm conditions (3:49:30), and he's on SU2. He landed at KSLC earlier in the stream and same thing (2:13:57). Is this just how the iFly handles in hot and turbulent conditions? If so, that's ridiculous. I know that Asobo's exaggerated turbulence can wreak havoc with many planes, but no other aircraft is affected quite this much. 

Not sure what turbulence setting XP72 was using, but mine is set to Low and my experience was the same as his.

 

Edited August 11, 2025Aug 11 by RNAVV19R

Honesty, to me, the MAX is great to hand fly.  Very stable, you just need to use decent amounts of trim to smooth out climbs and descents. 

25 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Honesty, to me, the MAX is great to hand fly.  Very stable, you just need to use decent amounts of trim to smooth out climbs and descents. 

I thought the same thing up until last week.

The approaches in the above video are anything but stable, though, and it has nothing to do with trim.

It's a recent phenomenon that I've noticed, and I'm not sure what the cause is. The only thing I can think of is that extremely hot temperatures (40C in this case) and the resulting thermals/turbulence negatively impacts the iFly more than other aircraft in the sim. 

1 minute ago, RNAVV19R said:

I thought the same thing up until last week.

The approaches in the above video are anything but stable, though, and it has nothing to do with trim.

It's a recent phenomenon that I've noticed, and I'm not sure what the cause is. The only thing I can think of is that extremely hot temperatures (40C in this case) and the resulting thermals/turbulence negatively impacts the iFly more than other aircraft in the sim. 

That may not be a bad thing.  One of my (few) complaints about the Fenix was that it rides like it's on rails through turbulence.   I would love to have to fight the controls when the aircraft is getting bounced around by turbulence. 

20 minutes ago, 11bee said:

That may not be a bad thing.  One of my (few) complaints about the Fenix was that it rides like it's on rails through turbulence.   I would love to have to fight the controls when the aircraft is getting bounced around by turbulence. 

I flew the Fenix A320 today in the same conditions as the iFly, and approaches in the A320 in these conditions feel quite a bit different than landing in cooler temperatures. It doesn't feel on rails, but yet it doesn't feel like a Cessna like the iFly does.

After the BFU, the Fenix is by far the best airliner to hand fly in the sim.

Edited August 11, 2025Aug 11 by RNAVV19R

56 minutes ago, RNAVV19R said:

I thought the same thing up until last week.

The approaches in the above video are anything but stable, though, and it has nothing to do with trim.

It's a recent phenomenon that I've noticed, and I'm not sure what the cause is. The only thing I can think of is that extremely hot temperatures (40C in this case) and the resulting thermals/turbulence negatively impacts the iFly more than other aircraft in the sim. 

I’m just learning this plane in SU2 and so I can’t possibly comment on whether it’s gotten worse but it flies incredibly easy for me. But why not try a flight in cooler temps and maybe in and out of the beta for SU3 to narrow down the issue. 

Edited August 11, 2025Aug 11 by Virtual-Chris

11 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I’m just learning this plane in SU2 and so I can’t possibly comment on whether it’s gotten worse but it flies incredibly easy for me. But why not try a flight in cooler temps and maybe in and out of the beta for SU3 to narrow down the issue. 

I've flown the plane many times in cooler temps since its release, and it's been perfect. 

It's not a SU3 issue, as the streamer in the video I shared was on SU2 and had the same experience. 

1 hour ago, RNAVV19R said:

I've flown the plane many times in cooler temps since its release, and it's been perfect. 

It's not a SU3 issue, as the streamer in the video I shared was on SU2 and had the same experience. 

I’m just saying if you really want to get to the bottom of this, you’ll likely have to do some test flights… with and without the beta, cold vs hot, and maybe even different versions of the files from ifly. I dunno. It would be good to know if the problem is the plane, the sim, or the conditions.

Edited August 11, 2025Aug 11 by Virtual-Chris

You might want to tag StearmanFlyer and see if he can help evaluate 👍

16 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

You might want to tag StearmanFlyer and see if he can help evaluate 👍

Good idea.

@Stearmandriver - whenever you get the chance, try flying into KLAS during the daytime with live weather, preferably if it's very hot outside. Would be interesting to see if you experience the same thing.

Or maybe you can think of something else that might be the reason for the behavior exhibited in the video I shared at those particular timestamps. 

Ironically I was just reading this 😁.  

First thing - iFly has stated that they're not officially supporting SU3 betas for this reason.  It seems something about these betas is changing the flight model a bit and it's different from build to build and so they aren't going to chase a moving target. Presumably when Asobo settles on a stable SU3 build, iFly will address it if necessary.  

Second thing - I usually kind of chuckle at streamers that have a camera on their controls, but it's helpful in this case, because we can see a lot of his instability is PIOs.  If he'd just let go for a second and let the plane settle out he'd have an easier time.  Remember, the aileron - spoiler coupling will kick in and cause you all manner of problems if you just keep banging the yoke back and forth like that.

These oscillations - as well as the effects of thermals - will be exaggerated in extremely hot, high density altitude conditions, so that in of itself is not necessarily wrong.  Thermals will just be stronger, and the less dense air will make the airplane less prone to self-damp an excursion, and it will make the controls more sensitive so it'll make a PIO easier to get into.  Same as hand flying at high altitude. 

I don't think I've ever tried the iFly in summer desert conditions so I can't say for sure, but those are considerations.  I'll have to give it a try.

1 hour ago, Stearmandriver said:

Ironically I was just reading this 😁.  

First thing - iFly has stated that they're not officially supporting SU3 betas for this reason.  It seems something about these betas is changing the flight model a bit and it's different from build to build and so they aren't going to chase a moving target. Presumably when Asobo settles on a stable SU3 build, iFly will address it if necessary.  

Second thing - I usually kind of chuckle at streamers that have a camera on their controls, but it's helpful in this case, because we can see a lot of his instability is PIOs.  If he'd just let go for a second and let the plane settle out he'd have an easier time.  Remember, the aileron - spoiler coupling will kick in and cause you all manner of problems if you just keep banging the yoke back and forth like that.

These oscillations - as well as the effects of thermals - will be exaggerated in extremely hot, high density altitude conditions, so that in of itself is not necessarily wrong.  Thermals will just be stronger, and the less dense air will make the airplane less prone to self-damp an excursion, and it will make the controls more sensitive so it'll make a PIO easier to get into.  Same as hand flying at high altitude. 

I don't think I've ever tried the iFly in summer desert conditions so I can't say for sure, but those are considerations.  I'll have to give it a try.

The streamer in the video was actually on SU2. So it doesn't seem to be a SU3 beta issue.

I get what you're saying about thermals and pilot induced oscillations, but I've seen this streamer land this plane many times before using the exact same technique without it exhibiting this behavior. As for me, I don't generally yank the yoke like he does, but I still experienced the same thing. And thermals definitely have an impact on other aircraft in the sim, as you'd expect, but I've not seen any aircraft be impacted to this degree. 

7 minutes ago, RNAVV19R said:

So it doesn't seem to be a SU3 beta issue.

But there IS an SU3 beta issue, so it seems likely that if you were on that, you experienced some of it. 

7 minutes ago, RNAVV19R said:

but I've seen this streamer land this plane many times before using the exact same technique without it exhibiting this behavior.

But was it 40c?  That doesn't happen very often in most places.  And most sim pilots do not often handfly at high altitudes where you'd see this kind of air density; at least, not maneuvering flight like an approach.  And not with the kind of thermals you'll see down low in the desert on that kind of day.  It's obvious watching his control inputs that a lot of that is pilot induced. 

Dunno though; like I say, I don't remember trying those conditions myself.  I'll have to give it a go.

7 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

But there IS an SU3 beta issue, so it seems likely that if you were on that, you experienced some of it. 

But was it 40c?  That doesn't happen very often in most places.  And most sim pilots do not often handfly at high altitudes where you'd see this kind of air density; at least, not maneuvering flight like an approach.  And not with the kind of thermals you'll see down low in the desert on that kind of day.  It's obvious watching his control inputs that a lot of that is pilot induced. 

Dunno though; like I say, I don't remember trying those conditions myself.  I'll have to give it a go.

At 2:13:00 of the same video, as he is approaching KSLC, look at how the plane is being pushed around while on autopilot all the way until he starts to hand fly. Granted, it is more windy there than it was during the KLAS approach, but I don't remember the iFly ever getting thrown around like this even in gusty conditions. 

Anyways, looking forward to your feedback after you get to fly it.

Folks, @Stearmandriver it's right on the money about PIO. 

 

Aside from the bad physics still present in MSFS2020/2024, there are also problems with adjusting peripheral sensitivities, which should have a linear response rather than curves. 

 

After reviewing many YouTube videos (in particular this guy), it's clear that a very high percentage of people continue to overcontrol their flight controls. Yes, at those wx conditions, you will encounter up/down drafts, but not what ASOBO thinks. It's really difficult to understand where they get this, and whether they would ever correct these issues.

 

Edited August 11, 2025Aug 11 by LRBS