2 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

Once again, "bargain" is relevant to an individual. For me the full subscription is vastly expensive and not something I need.

Agree very much. As a MSFS2024 user I have access to the excellent flight planner.

Hopefully more and more 3rd party developers integrate it into their systems. 

4 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

Once again, "bargain" is relevant to an individual. For me the full subscription is vastly expensive and not something I need.

Well of course it is. 

My point was relative to the comment that it was "unfortunate" that Navigraph was the only option.  It obviously isn't the only option for many 2024 users such as yourself, but for an unfortunate option, it's pretty dang good option for many of us.

My remarks were a counterpoint and clearly stated to be for my (and many others') use case, not to argue that it's the one true way for all.

 

Scott

On 8/11/2025 at 12:00 PM, riccardo74 said:

Do you think we could achieve this in a near future?

We could achieve this now, if developers used the database that is already available and up to date in the sim. Obviously for developers who are using their own external database, then this represents a development effort to support.

The data available in MSFS 2024 is very, very complete, both in coverage, worldwide accuracy, and in available data points. To our knowledge, we have closed all the gaps as far as data points go with what is available in 2024.

We have not been contacted by any developers to my knowledge asking for additional data points, so if there is still something missing (which we have heard claimed over the years and thus tried to rectify) we have not been made aware of it. We would be happy to hear if there is anything missing still that is blocking these addon developers from using the built-in database.

Double post.

Edited August 14, 2025Aug 14 by MattNischan

@MattNischan Completely agree with you. I hope in the next addon updates become to change something. 

Edited August 14, 2025Aug 14 by riccardo74

On 8/14/2025 at 4:42 AM, MattNischan said:

We could achieve this now, if developers used the database that is already available and up to date in the sim. Obviously for developers who are using their own external database, then this represents a development effort to support.

The data available in MSFS 2024 is very, very complete, both in coverage, worldwide accuracy, and in available data points. To our knowledge, we have closed all the gaps as far as data points go with what is available in 2024.

We have not been contacted by any developers to my knowledge asking for additional data points, so if there is still something missing (which we have heard claimed over the years and thus tried to rectify) we have not been made aware of it. We would be happy to hear if there is anything missing still that is blocking these addon developers from using the built-in database.

This is interesting info. Thank you.

My main concern with the inbuilt database are terminal procedures. I'm still not sure I fully understand the matter. As it seems, if there are terminal procedures coded in the airport scenery, then they are used instead of the procedures in the database.

This (very much by design) leads to procedures getting old in the sim, because no scenery dev is keeping the procedures current.

This consequently leads to problems with aircraft add-ons that use the inbuilt database, which you can read about A LOT here in the forums and on the boards of the developers. Procedures for entire airports are completely missing (don't actually understand the technical reason behind that, maybe @MattNischan can elaborate). Ultimately, the scenery designers get blamed by the aircraft designers (and add-on owners), for not keeping their procedures current. From my perspective, this is a design flaw in the simulator. Why is it possible/needed to have hard coded procedures in scenery packages, when that data is already provided in the sim's own database?

This does not happen with add-ons, that use Navigraph as their database provider. And this is the reason I avoid add-ons, that don't offer Navigraph as an option.

8 hours ago, NovemberUniform said:

From my perspective, this is a design flaw in the simulator.

It's not really a design flaw, it's just, well, the design. It's been this way since FS6 (or maybe even earlier). Navigational procedure data is in the scenery BGLs attached to the airport scenery objects (yes, the stock data works the same way as everything else, it's just the lowest-most BGL layer). Changing that for 2020 or 2024 would have meant breaking backwards compatibility.

In this day and age, I'm not totally sure why scenery designers opt to either use the navdata delete flags on their custom scenery or add their own procedures, when they know it would be impossible to keep them as up to date as even the stock data. But prior to MSFS 2020, remember that wasn't a standard thing, if you were lucky the navdata would be updated maybe once in the whole sim lifecycle. Without this ability to layer BGL data on top of other BGL data, Navigraph themselves would not have the ability to add their navdata to the sim. And there are other good use cases for adding your own navdata, such as historical addons.

If the sim were to say, OK, you can mod basically everything else, but you can't mod navdata, I think there would be many upset simmers.

3 hours ago, MattNischan said:

It's not really a design flaw, it's just, well, the design. It's been this way since FS6 (or maybe even earlier). Navigational procedure data is in the scenery BGLs attached to the airport scenery objects (yes, the stock data works the same way as everything else, it's just the lowest-most BGL layer). Changing that for 2020 or 2024 would have meant breaking backwards compatibility.

In this day and age, I'm not totally sure why scenery designers opt to either use the navdata delete flags on their custom scenery or add their own procedures, when they know it would be impossible to keep them as up to date as even the stock data. But prior to MSFS 2020, remember that wasn't a standard thing, if you were lucky the navdata would be updated maybe once in the whole sim lifecycle. Without this ability to layer BGL data on top of other BGL data, Navigraph themselves would not have the ability to add their navdata to the sim. And there are other good use cases for adding your own navdata, such as historical addons.

If the sim were to say, OK, you can mod basically everything else, but you can't mod navdata, I think there would be many upset simmers.

Great explanation! Thank you very much.

On 8/12/2025 at 5:00 AM, jcomm said:

One of the biggest problems with the MSFS Flight Planner is that it doesn't have Performance info for any aircraft, even the default ASOBO / INIBUILDS 😕

 

This drive me NUTS!!!