34 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

That tells me everything I need to know about your 'professionalism' 

There are some very inspiring aviation ambassadors out there, this isn't it, enough said

You still haven't answered the questions. By the way, where is this anger coming from? 

6 minutes ago, LRBS said:

You still haven't answered the questions. By the way, where is this anger coming from? 

Absolutely no anger, I already said I will wait until the prelimary report

and I also said the last thing to you ENOUGH SAID 🙄

36 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

Absolutely no anger, I already said I will wait until the prelimary report

and I also said the last thing to you ENOUGH SAID 🙄

Can't you wait for the final report and avoid getting involved in unnecessary statements or unproductive conversations for no reason? Especially when you have no clear understanding of the gravity of this incident. Don't be rude, please. 

 

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Can't you wait for the final report and avoid getting involved in unnecessary statements or unproductive conversations for no reason? Especially when you have no clear understanding of the gravity of this incident. Don't be rude, please. 

 

I was never being rude, Enough Said means exactly that 

Edit: Also I never said Final Report, I said Preliminary Report

Edited August 17, 2025Aug 17 by Matthew Kane

5 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Can't you wait for the final report and avoid getting involved in unnecessary statements or unproductive conversations for no reason? Especially when you have no clear understanding of the gravity of this incident. Don't be rude, please. 

 

Mr. LRBS,

I read your "about" and find it very interesting.  Qualified and current in both the B747 and A380 at the same time.  Also you referenced being a Designated Examiner and a Chief Pilot.  One of my CAF buddies is a DE for experimental aircraft.  Not something I would be interested in doing since I'm not interested in flying the "A" model of anything.    

In my military career I was on several aviation accident boards and was trained at the USC safety school.  The one thing I was taught and learned is "Never question command decision until you know what the pilot knew or thought he knew".  

I know I'm old, my first type rating was in 1967 in a DC-3.  ROFL

Grace and Peace, 

 

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Can't you wait for the final report and avoid getting involved in unnecessary statements or unproductive conversations for no reason? Especially when you have no clear understanding of the gravity of this incident. Don't be rude, please. 

 

well cant you wait either for the final report, no one knows what was going in the cockpit at the time

48 minutes ago, BlueStar said:

Mr. LRBS,

I read your "about" and find it very interesting.  Qualified and current in both the B747 and A380 at the same time.  Also you referenced being a Designated Examiner and a Chief Pilot.  One of my CAF buddies is a DE for experimental aircraft.  Not something I would be interested in doing since I'm not interested in flying the "A" model of anything.    

In my military career I was on several aviation accident boards and was trained at the USC safety school.  The one thing I was taught and learned is "Never question command decision until you know what the pilot knew or thought he knew".  

I know I'm old, my first type rating was in 1967 in a DC-3.  ROFL

Grace and Peace, 

 

Hat off to the DC3. Such a marvelous airplane. Thank God, not anymore in the A380. It was too much for me, especially when I am so close to retirement. Anyhow, it's a nice machine, and it's very difficult to choose which one is better. I understand what you are saying. In cases like this, as I mentioned, crews are constantly informed and in contact with the company for the best outcome. As I mentioned, my first priority is always the pilot's safety, nothing else. If pilots are safe, everybody around them is. Also, I never questioned the command decision, but that comes with a price; sometimes they collect glory, sometimes not. All I can say, is, that too many problems have arisen (2 go-arounds while the wx conditions did not improve, and the third attempt ended badly) based on initial statements, weather conditions, and that approach, which should have been discontinued long ago, resulting in a diversion. As I mentioned, I'm very familiar with the RCTP area, which has many suitable military and civilian airports that were less affected by the typhoon. 

30 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

well cant you wait either for the final report, no one knows what was going in the cockpit at the time

I'm afraid you are also missing the point here. As the other guys had an opinion (on YouTube) and were not familiar with the airplane and the area, they made a statement. Nobody was upset or told them to wait for the final report, and no one told them whatever was going on in the cockpit at that time, no one told them they were hasty in their comments, nobody told them they were flexing muscles or making cheap statements about their professionalism, etc. And all this is coming from people with no knowledge about these types of operations. Let's behave like adults, please.

I was thinking of this book "Into Thin Air", about taking these sort of tourist climbers up Mount Everest. I don't remember exactly, but they had some hard rule, like no matter what by 4 pm at the latest, if you haven't made it to the top by then, turn around and head back to one of the ascent camps, where there's shelter, fresh supplies, fresh oxygen etc. And they ended up ignoring that, which is partially understandable already being so close to the summit, but it was foolhardy all the same.

I don't know exactly all the things that happened in this particular case, but still it seems things might have gone better. Perhaps a portion of the preflight briefing going sort of like this, and then also sticking with it!

"We're headed right into a typhoon, so we can expect some crazy conditions. But the weather's expected to remain ok here in Hong Kong, so let's just use this as our primary alternate. We'll do the short hop over to Taipei, try a maximum of two approaches, but nothing gung ho. The moment it doesn't feel right we do a go around and head back. If our fuel reaches such and such a level, we of course head to our alternate no matter what anyway. Or we could plan another alternate that's reporting good conditions, Kaohsiung, Manila, Naha? Aside from all that we could just call and say we're simply not going right now. Hey, as long as we're safe. What do you think?"

In any case a safe plan made beforehand, so one doesn't need to rack one's brains in a hairy situation. It's not the 1920's pioneer flying by the seat of one's pants into the unknown void type of adventure.

I'm sure as back then with the Everest guides there was some motto like, "Join us for peak performance and make it to the top!" Or maybe with UPS something like, "Rain or shine, we deliver on time!" There's economics and prestige involved. But of course also the risk to economics and prestige if there's a disaster.

3 hours ago, Antipodeslonghaul said:

I was thinking of this book "Into Thin Air", about taking these sort of tourist climbers up Mount Everest. I don't remember exactly, but they had some hard rule, like no matter what by 4 pm at the latest, if you haven't made it to the top by then, turn around and head back to one of the ascent camps, where there's shelter, fresh supplies, fresh oxygen etc. And they ended up ignoring that, which is partially understandable already being so close to the summit, but it was foolhardy all the same.

I don't know exactly all the things that happened in this particular case, but still it seems things might have gone better. Perhaps a portion of the preflight briefing going sort of like this, and then also sticking with it!

"We're headed right into a typhoon, so we can expect some crazy conditions. But the weather's expected to remain ok here in Hong Kong, so let's just use this as our primary alternate. We'll do the short hop over to Taipei, try a maximum of two approaches, but nothing gung ho. The moment it doesn't feel right we do a go around and head back. If our fuel reaches such and such a level, we of course head to our alternate no matter what anyway. Or we could plan another alternate that's reporting good conditions, Kaohsiung, Manila, Naha? Aside from all that we could just call and say we're simply not going right now. Hey, as long as we're safe. What do you think?"

In any case a safe plan made beforehand, so one doesn't need to rack one's brains in a hairy situation. It's not the 1920's pioneer flying by the seat of one's pants into the unknown void type of adventure.

I'm sure as back then with the Everest guides there was some motto like, "Join us for peak performance and make it to the top!" Or maybe with UPS something like, "Rain or shine, we deliver on time!" There's economics and prestige involved. But of course also the risk to economics and prestige if there's a disaster.

Finally, someone gets it. And that's one of the reasons this is so outrageous. Especially at this level in the airline industry. It's not a pop-up overnight airline. at least over 30 years, if I recall correctly. UNACCAPTABLE! This was not an emergency to land, no matter what. 

I don't really need a final report by aviation authorities to know that the pilots here were extremely irresponsible and reckless.

The fact that there was a typhoon in the vicinity warranted a diversion to the alternate airport.  Moreover, the 747 limitations state a maximum crosswind landing on a dry runway at 30kts - here they were over 40kts.

I also give a lot of importance and credence to the opinion here of an actual 747 pilot with many years of experience.

My guess is that these pilots are under tremendous pressure by their bosses to "get there" on time and on budget, leading to sometimes unwise decisions.  We see this attitude all to often with passenger airlines and transport tractor trailers trucks where profit takes precedence over safety, which should never happen.

Dave

Edited August 17, 2025Aug 17 by dave2013

Not sure where you guys got "Final Report" from when I was only ever talking about the Preliminary Report. A preliminary report provides a concise summary of factual information gathered during the initial phase of an accident or incident investigation. It is typically released within a few weeks of the event. From there you have a better idea based on facts not speculation

LRBS I never once said "Final Report" that was on you. If you wish to continue to speculate before a Preliminary Report that is fine. I prefer to wait for the Preliminary Report, don't put words in people mouths I never once said Final Report

When a Preliminary Report is released that is when Tubers like Juan Browne or Captain Steeeve release detailed analysis based on the Preliminary Report which to be honest is the responsible thing to do.

3 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

I prefer to wait for the Preliminary Report, don't put words in people mouths I never once said Final Report

Preliminary, final, doesn't matter.  The other guy mentioned final report, BTW.

An actual 747 pilot stated his opinion which you were quick to dismiss and then to go so far as to be unfriendly and combative in your response.  Now you're doing it to me.

Is there something personal with you regarding this particular incident?

Dave

3 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Is there something personal with you regarding this particular incident?

Nope nothing personal at all, I expressed I was not going to join in on speculation and name calling of the pilots which is what had occured, I would prefer to wait for the Preliminary Report to get a bigger picture, a Preliminary Report is generally only about 2 to 4 weeks away so no big deal. I did need to correct that I never said Final Report there is a big difference between a Preliminary Report and a Final Report a Preliminary Report does give a clearer picture of why some things occured.

No hard feelings all is good in my world of aviation and otherwise 

34 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

No hard feelings all is good in my world of aviation and otherwise 

No worries, man.  All is well.

Dave