NEW FSX. 4 Boeing 737-800 X2 Aircraft

[signmanbob 592]

Signmanbob,I agree 100% with your comments about the very good quality of Ariane products and their support. My experience with Ariane has always been excellent. In fact, before I purchased my first 737 from them I exchanged several emails with their support staff with questions about their products.....all of which were answered with the utmost courtesy and in detail. Any after sales communication with support has been excellent.Their products are very good. The flight models, flight decks, systems are a superb replication of the aircraft. One of the reason I can say this is that while I have been earning my living as a pilot since the 1970's I have never flown the 737( I now fly in forest fire suppression). However, a former f/o from the days when I flew the regionals is now a 737 capt with a major airline and occasionally he has got me into their 737-700 level D sim and flying it and understanding it is a piece of cake after what I have learned from the Ariane 737.....and it is a lot of fun! One thing you have to do to get the full enjoyment and benefit of this product is to read the manuals in depth. Study is required. Simple as that. No substitute. If you do not understand something go to their forums and ask.If you want the closest experience of flying a 737 on your home computer Ariane is the way to go. dbw

Well said dbw!! I love to hear real pilots tell me one of my beloved sim aircraft is an accurate re-creation. That is just outstanding!I have a very good friend that flew the Dash8 and had 13,000 hours on it before he retired. He told me that the Majestic Dash8 is as close as you can get to the real thing. Now I hear this from you about Ariane's awesome 737. It is music to my ears because it just makes me enjoy this wonderful hobby and these great payware addons even more.These developers work and stress for thousands of hours and sleepless nights, pouring thousands of dollars into making the most accurate simulations that can possibly be made because they want to cater to a very small handful of aircraft simulation enthusiast who love to go through all of the checklists and procedures to setup and fly these beautiful accurate aircraft.There are some that are just in it for the money, making aircraft that you Ctrl+E to start, use the MSFS flight plan and default GPS and go "flying". The visual models look like cartoons and are barely an improvement over the default aircraft, if that at all. They pump out one product after another and sell them to lack luster, luke-warm sim gamers who will fly them for a while, then go on to playing Doom or Dragons and Dungeons. These airplane mills make huge profits because they always have a new product to sell that didn't take spit to make.Yet people who don't even own the product will stand in line to bash one of the best developers of Boeing 737 addons available on the market. I guess it's just the nature of some people to want to kick something that they think is down.Well, I've got news for these people. Ariane is not down by any means. Actually they are going strong. Check out the McPhat website. Ariane is the biggest purchaser of McPhat liveries that there is. They are about to release the -700 X2, build in many new improvements to the FSX product line, release the new Nav Data Manager and Ops FMS and about 300 beautiful McPhat liveries packaged by carriers. They have released full color printed and bound manuals for the 737 in general and for their sim and will be adding many pages of additions to these manuals that will give an avid simmer the cutting edge on the 737, and boy I'm excited. I just love it. :(

[signmanbob 592]

also they talk about all these numerous liveries, but I only see a few mentioned. Are there any more available somewhere for free?

For Free?!! You looking for free?!! B) If your looking for free, your in the right place. Avsim has more free stuff than you can find anywhere! You'll feel like a kid in a candy store right here! What you talking about free!! You can fill up your Tbite harddrive with free stuff right here. Have at it man!! I hope you have a good internet connection :( you'll need it.Microsoft sells FSX for about $30 or $35 bucks. By itself it is more complicated than any payware sim available from Ariane, PMDG, Level D or any of the addon makers, yet few addon makers will sell anything for $30 or $35 bucks. It is called volume sales. They sell millions, so it costs less.When PMDG announces a release, people stand ready with their computers and when it is released, you can hear the suction from downloading all the way to the South Pole. PMDG sells high quality products, but they also sell volume, so they can sell at a lower price, give away tons of liveries with the product, and still make a profit and that's just wonderful, but obviously their sales are only a small fraction of the total sales of FSX, so they can't sell their products for $30 or $35. Look on their forums and you will see many whiners with a luke-warm love of flight simming, complaining about the price.Ariane make an excellent Boeing product, but has much less of the market than PMDG. Yet their product is very complex and the cost of development is the same as PMDG or darn close. Since they are not in the position yet to sell the kind of volume that PMDG enjoys, each product has to sell at a higher price in order to cover the cost of development and still make a profit. It's simple math. They cannot give the freebie livery packages, because they pay McPhat to make these very high quality and beautiful liveries. Because that is what their customers want.Despite all this, they still have a very loyal following of sim enthusiasts anxiously awaiting what they release because they make the best Boeing 737 products available anywhere. They aren't interested in selling to everyone.They are looking for that serious airline sim enthusiast that loves the 737 in particular as much as they do. Yet there are still areas that Ariane has lead the pack in.They focused on a full functioning VC cockpit when everyone else had 2D with just basically a VC photograph. They started an activation process to protect their product against pirating and many sim developers followed out of necessity and have adapted the same or similar activation processes.I'm sorry friend. You won't find the freebies at Ariane :( . But you will find a great Boeing 737 that feels real and is a ball to fly. :(

[signmanbob 592]

It would appear from this thread that if you do not own a respective companies product there is great reason to denounce them.signmanbob and dbw1 thank you for taking the time to write the detailed posts regarding your thoughts on Ariane and their aircraft. I enjoy aircraft that are well simulated and am willing to pay for what I receive. I'm sick and tired of hearing "it's too expensive" (so I'll bash the manufacturer instead) excuse. It's like anything else in this world, you get what you pay for. You've now perked my interest in Ariane's aircraft.

You're very welcome sargeski, but it is my pleasure and always have been, to stand up for the beloved developers that make this hobby such a pleasure. Anyone who is really serious about this hobby, doesn't hesitate when they see their beautiful simulations, to add them to their hanger.We beg them to make the sim more complex and accurate, we sure can't complain and whine when they charge the price for their work.Bob

[Petraeus 147]

I fly the Ariane X2 using VNAV all of the time with both climb and decent. Ariane is working on a new FMS that will allow modifications of the VNAV, but the FMS now figures optimal VNAV path and speed and the Ariane X2 737-800 and 900 will follow it perfectly.

In that case I'm even more curious. How does the VNAV work, if you can't input Gross Weight? Any FMC needs to know the aircraft's Gross Weight in order to do its calculations. Or is there a way to input Gross Weight?And why are they working on "a new FMS", rather than getting the current one to work according to spec?

[signmanbob 592]

In that case I'm even more curious. How does the VNAV work, if you can't input Gross Weight? Any FMC needs to know the aircraft's Gross Weight in order to do its calculations. Or is there a way to input Gross Weight?And why are they working on "a new FMS", rather than getting the current one to work according to spec?

Who said that you can't imput gross weight? The FMC has a PERF page and accepts gross weight, ZFW, FL, etc.The reason that they are working on a new FMC is because it will be integral with the new NavData Manager.

[Guest 413X3]

of course all software has bugs, but when was the last time ariane addressed issues? they are worse than captain sim, and thats a pretty low bar to fall under. How someone can even speak about Ariane in the same sentence as PMDG, Level-D, etc is just mind boggling. I know for a fact that both PMDG and Level-D have not only worked with Boeing, but also had real pilots testing their systems. The level of detail is amazing. So until someone can show otherwise, Ariane is basically just a ctrl + e aircraft with a little more eye candy.

[Petraeus 147]

Who said that you can't imput gross weight? The FMC has a PERF page and accepts gross weight, ZFW, FL, etc.

Googling reveals a number of users complaining. See sddjd's post on page 2 of this thread. Because the Ariane forum is not open to non-users, there's no transparency about whether this is a real problem, a non-problem, an intermittent problem, or a problem that existed at one time but has since been fixed.However, this entry in the Ariane FAQ certainly isn't reassuring.

A problem with entering the GWQ A problem with entering the GW (174.7 for the 900). Sometimes it works good, mostly I get the message: "invalid data entry" (maybe because of not having full tanks?) AIf you sit at the gate or on the ramp for a while with your engines running, you are using fuel up and your fuel weight is going to change and affect your GW/ZFW. Press pause or try entering the complete data without the decimal. ie: 179.23 would be entered as 17923.

Since when did the fact that a plane had engines running, and hence gradually decreasing weight, have any bearing at all on the pilot's input of the Gross Weight into the FMC? Is this implying that the FMC is comparing what is actually input with what it 'knows' to be the true value? And if it thinks the entry is wrong, iis it going to say 'invalid data entry'? Since when did the Boeing 737 FMC work like that?What's the point of pressing 'pause'? Does a real-world pilot press 'pause'? How do you enter 17923 or 179.23 into an FMC field that only has four boxes - ie xxx.x?So what's going on here? This FAQ 'answer' actually raises more questions than it answers. The person answering it doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. This FAQ entry, together with the users reporting their "invalid data entry" problems, strongly points to there being a real problem. And personally, I'm very reluctant to cough up $139 to find out whether I'm going to come across it as well.Of course, if non-users could log into the Ariane forum, then it would be clear to them whether this is a problem affecting a lot of people. A hidden forum doesn't exactly reassure prospective purchasers.

[Guest 413X3]

yeah you would never enter a full number without decimals. thats not how the true fmc works.

[Guest 413X3]

wow so I am paying over $100usd for ONE VARIANT? are you kidding me? pmdg offers the entire ng fleet for one price. If I want a -700 and -800 I have to buy each like they are completely different airplanes when all they are are just stretched models with the exact same vc?

[Manny 1,293]

Does this work with the Go Flight MCP Pro and its EFIS?Is there a driver for this if it is rerquired and is it payware (How much) or free?Manny

[dbw1 444]

Comments re the FMC....took a few quotes and responded to them.....Patreus said: From what I've read, there is no work-around at the moment. As a result of not being able to enter Gross Weight into the FMC, everything that depends on it does not work either. So:- no pressing the VNAV button and getting a managed climb and descent Descents are managed depending on what you enter. You need to manage speed and targets and the aircraft will give you a good, managed descent (no use of air brakes like on every PMDG flight).- no automatic obeying of altitude constraints Provided your LEG entries were correct and your assigned ATC Alt has been dialed in, it will obey descent alts.- no calculation of V-speeds Strange but it will. You need to give it all the info for it to do that.- no calculation of Vref on approach It will provided you have set it up right. Reading the FAQ's is quite a comedy (unless you've shelled out over $100 dollars on this package, in which case it's a tragedy. I was tempted to part with some money until my researches turned up this 'dead VNAV feature' in the software). The same question comes up a number of times in the FAQ's, and the response is each time is some variation on:- RTFM- this is sophisticated software, so don't expect it to work the same as some other 737 / Boeing FMC package you've flown before- this FMC has been checked out by real-world pilots, unlike with other products that Ariane condescendingly refer to in their FAQ as 'simtoys' Not condescending at all. Simtoys are made for entertainment and are not accurately scaled or made. Simtoys entertain. Simulations are more technical and difficult to fly. One add on aircraft proudly refers to their products as "Lite" and rightly so as their products, which are very good, are geared to a different market segment. - make sure you enter the number correctly, i.e. like 174.505 (even though the entry boxes only allow for xxx.x, and since when did the Boeing FMC require the input of any weights to three decimal places of klbs?) Since their manual asks you to enter it that way.- (My personal favourite!). If the engines are running, then the Gross Weight is decreasing even as you key in the numbers, so press 'Pause', key in the numbers, because now they are not changing, and then unpause. Then that instruction should be observed. Sadly, none of these answers works, because people keep coming back with the same question. It wouldn't be rocket science to fix a simple data input problem, and I have two theories why they haven't yet. They have and want people to enter it RIGHT not the way you THINK to enter it. Read the manuals. This cannot be stressed enough. Assumption makes an &@($* out of U and ME. (ASSUME) The first is the obvious one that they've got your money (and indeed lots) so now you can kiss off, sucker. The second theory is more devious, but bear in mind that this is a very arrogant company charging premium prices for what they claim to be replica Boeings, and it is that Ariane have a fundamental problem getting VNAV to work as it should, (as other vendors have in the past) and so they are camouflaging it with this apparently more basic problem. Either way, it's pathetic, and you expect a $100+ piece of software to work at least as well as a $15 Friendly Panels FMC. So can you get the Ariane FSX 737-800 FMC to accept Gross Weight inputs? Yes you can Patreus. You need to make sure your engines are NOT running. Engines use fuel. Fuel is weight. That is not rocket science its fact. The FMC is VERY sensitive to entries. it is a very professional CALCULATING tool (not a vsi-come-alt-come-spd gauge like most are a combination of those gauges). Ariane made a calculator. Yes its not perfect but no real simulation is (not even Bopeing's is). One pilot said on the blue coat forums that Ariane's FMC was even as "fussy as the real thing". So careful entry, pause as you do enter and make sure you take the weight from FS shown weight when its paused under fuel and load menu. You will see the section marked in the manuals.PMDG's 737ng came in two separate packages that had to be purchased individually. The MD11 price is higher if you want both fs9 and fsx. PSS charged for their liveries.Once again. I cannot stress enough the importance of reading, learning and understanding the manuals.dbw

[Dougal 165]

- make sure you enter the number correctly, i.e. like 174.505 (even though the entry boxes only allow for xxx.x, and since when did the Boeing FMC require the input of any weights to three decimal places of klbs?) Since their manual asks you to enter it that way.

Re the above. Just one simple question if I may..... Does the real world B737 FMC take those inputs?Just a yes or no Please.

[pontiuspilotus 6]

So can you get the Ariane FSX 737-800 FMC to accept Gross Weight inputs? Yes you can Patreus. You need to make sure your engines are NOT running. Engines use fuel. Fuel is weight. That is not rocket science its fact. The FMC is VERY sensitive to entries. it is a very professional CALCULATING tool (not a vsi-come-alt-come-spd gauge like most are a combination of those gauges). Ariane made a calculator. Yes its not perfect but no real simulation is (not even Bopeing's is). One pilot said on the blue coat forums that Ariane's FMC was even as "fussy as the real thing". So careful entry, pause as you do enter and make sure you take the weight from FS shown weight when its paused under fuel and load menu. You will see the section marked in the manuals.dbw

Normally the GW would come from the Load Planner and entered manually. Using the APU also uses up fuel; I cannot imagine being in the real aircraft and not being able to enter GW because fuel is being consumed. If the FQIS doesn't work the system should be prompting the pilot to enter the ZFW manually after which the fuel weight is back calculated from the difference between the input GW and ZFW. Also using Ariane's logic I have to shut down all my engines just before takeoff because I have to enter the take off gross weight (which will change the minute I press the enter button -- now where was that Pause button, darn can't find it)!

[Petraeus 147]

They have and want people to enter it RIGHT not the way you THINK to enter it. Read the manuals. This cannot be stressed enough. Assumption makes an &@($* out of U and ME. (ASSUME)

So...it would be incorrect for me to assume that I can enter Gross Weight into an Ariane FMS in the format xxx.x, with engines running, and indeed with FSX running?Instead, the right way is:- no engines running- no APU running (because the APU also uses fuel)- with FSX paused- with Gross Weight input as xxx.xxx, xxxxxx, xxx.xx, or xxxxx, but NOT the xxx.x that corresponds to the [][][].[] that you actually see on the FMS- and if I do all that, it will accept the Gross Weight input, and VNAV will actually work?Is my understanding correct?Is that the Ariane way?And is that the Boeing real-world way?

[Dougal 165]

So...it would be incorrect for me to assume that I can enter Gross Weight into an Ariane FMS in the format xxx.x, with engines running, and indeed with FSX running?Instead, the right way is:- no engines running- no APU running (because the APU also uses fuel)- with FSX paused- with Gross Weight input as xxx.xxx, xxxxxx, xxx.xx, or xxxxx, but NOT the xxx.x that corresponds to the [][][].[] that you actually see on the FMS- and if I do all that, it will accept the Gross Weight input, and VNAV will actually work?Is my understanding correct?Is that the Ariane way?And is that the Boeing real-world way?

Now i'd just love to see those questions answered - Honestly!It is a shame about those things, because I think the actual visual quality is very good. I used to have the very early Ariane model.