Accidents in t-storms -- Theory vs. Reality ?

[JSACKS 0]

We just had a severe t-storm in the D.C. area with a tornado warning. In the middle of all this I spotted a jet airliner turning down the Potomac at about 2000 AGL headed for KDCA. I don't understand this: if pilots say, oh, we never fly land or takeoff in a t-storm, how come I just saw such a thing? Also, many aviation accidents have occurred as a result of flying right into a t-storm, usually (but not exclusively) windshear on approach, etc. So I find it strange when folks say, turn off your t-storm for a sim landing because in real life you just wouldn't do it.How bad must the weather get to abandon an approach and landing in a t-storm?JS

[RFields5421 1]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...212X18961&key=1would be a good hint.Most major airports have wind shear detectors which aid the tower and aircraft crews in determining when it is too dangerous to land.If you could see the aircraft, it probably was not in danger of the storm. Those guys and the ATC are pretty good at steering aircraft around small storm cells.However, often after landing, the aircraft will be unable to park at a gate because lightning will keep the ground crews from working the ramp.Thunderstorms are a risk often in today's world - real pilots of large aircraft have more experience than any of us - and their weather works a bit differently than FS. They have to balance the risks vs the schedule in many decisions every day.We don't have any way in FS to really tell how large or how dangerous a storm is compared to the real world.Personally, I'd never recommend an FS pilot turn off weather/ thunderstorms for landing - I'd recommend diverting to the alternate.

[Guest CRJ700FO]

actually the example you use is a bad one. your example is a great example of bad CRM (chief pilot flying with a FO) and fatigue issues.if the idiot chief pilot CA (who rarely flew) would have remembered to arm the spoilers during the before landing checklist the accident would not have happened. oh well, this idiots wife sued the FAA saying the landing lights that decapitated her husband, due to the accident he caused, were not break away lights.KLIT now has the concrete arresting system on that runway.a couple better examples would be:http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...214X37434&key=1http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...206X01727&key=1the problem in my opinion (worth less than $0.02) is the simple fact that people land in inclement weather ALL the time and thus really do not consider it a problem but rather routine. complacency then leads to the 1 time in 1000 where you are caught in a dangerous situation. of course ATC doesn't help much. i have been waiting for takeoff at ORD with the controller telling pilots a wind shear warning (30 kt MEASURED shear) reported over 27L and 22L but still asking if they wanted to take off! "Uh no" thankfully was the response.

[razorseal 0]

>actually the example you use is a bad one. your example is a>great example of bad CRM (chief pilot flying with a FO) and>fatigue issues.>>if the idiot chief pilot CA (who rarely flew) would have>remembered to arm the spoilers during the before landing>checklist the accident would not have happened. oh well, this>idiots wife sued the FAA saying the landing lights that>decapitated her husband, due to the accident he caused, were>not break away lights.>>KLIT now has the concrete arresting system on that runway.>>a couple better examples would be:>>http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...214X37434&key=1>>http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...206X01727&key=1>>>the problem in my opinion (worth less than $0.02) is the>simple fact that people land in inclement weather ALL the time>and thus really do not consider it a problem but rather>routine. complacency then leads to the 1 time in 1000 where>you are caught in a dangerous situation. of course ATC doesn't>help much. i have been waiting for takeoff at ORD with the>controller telling pilots a wind shear warning (30 kt MEASURED>shear) reported over 27L and 22L but still asking if they>wanted to take off! "Uh no" thankfully was the response.is the chief pilot ATP/type rated? if he is so, he has just as much right to fly the plane as a capt as any other :)

[Cessnaflyer 56]

>is the chief pilot ATP/type rated? if he is so, he has just as>much right to fly the plane as a capt as any other :)uh no.Recency and proficency goes a long way in preventing many accidents

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>is the chief pilot ATP/type rated? if he is so, he has just as>much right to fly the plane as a capt as any other :)so let me get this straight. you'd want a guy flying up front who has flown maybe 3 times in the last year whose currency is usually made in a sim?!?!? on top of this he is flying with an FO who is intimidated by the fact that he is flying with his boss (also the CP was checking out the FO for some undisclosed disciplinary action) so that helps in the "crew" department.

[dfish 1]

I live near Toronto Pearson airport and I remember the day that Air France A340 crashed. We had a very bad thunder storm going through. I was very supprized to find out that planes were landing.Dave F.

[JSACKS 0]

So there y'all go: we don't land in t-storms say the professionals. And what do they do? They land --no, crash--in t-storms!JS

[Geofa 108]

I just flew around some real bad ones yesterday(tops 55,000) and severe rain/hail/ tstorms. With the aid of a stormscope, xm weather, and an altitude that let us see them visually it was easy to keep a wide (e.g. safe) distance from the bad stuff and reach our destination. The leg from bmg to tys was the most challenging-the course line shows how we had to continually deviate. I took some shots in the flight which show the cockpit info vs. what we saw out the window-I'll post them in the real shot forum when I get home.http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7345Rhttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>So there y'all go: we don't land in t-storms say the>professionals. And what do they do? They land --no,>crash--in t-storms!technically in air france's case it was a land then crash. :)

[KevinAu 441]

Why did you even pose the start of this thread as a question? Seems like all you wanted to do was start a thread to bash the pilots of the plane you saw outside your window. That was pretty apparent from the tone of the second paragraph in your opening post and fully revealed in this last post of yours. You should've just been honest and got to the point by saying the pilots of the plane you saw fly by when the weather channel was calling for thunderstorms should be fired, instead of trolling it out. Then you wouldn't have wasted the time of the people who thought you were actually asking a question out of honest curiosity and answered you with an honest answer.

[JSACKS 0]

A good distinction!JS