3 hours ago, Bjoern said:

Unless the developer explicity states so, you're technically not entitled to updates and every purchase is essentially a gamble.

FJS also made it clear from the earliest days of XP12's shelf life that the 727 was the lowest priority. From the glacial update pace for their Q400 and the lack of progress on the 732 over the years, the direction in which things were heading was clear. And they never prommised or announced anything, so accusing them of dishonesty is just unfair.

 

I don't have any of these products, so I'll just take your word for it.

They did so in the xp-plane.org  forums and some people asked about the updates they even said something like the update was going to paid upgrade which i was fine the time it take to develop things...they got told to shut up so instead of updating the 737 or the 727 they go and focus on other plane like the  Q400  go figure. 

1 hour ago, Silverbird said:

They did so in the xp-plane.org  forums and some people asked about the updates they even said something like the update was going to paid upgrade which i was fine the time it take to develop things...they got told to shut up so instead of updating the 737 or the 727 they go and focus on other plane like the  Q400  go figure. 

Until they take money from us, they don’t owe us a thing. 

3 hours ago, Silverbird said:

They did so in the xp-plane.org  forums and some people asked about the updates they even said something like the update was going to paid upgrade which i was fine the time it take to develop things...they got told to shut up so instead of updating the 737 or the 727 they go and focus on other plane like the  Q400  go figure. 

Have you ever wondered why we loose developers.??

Well we may lose developers but not because of the state of FJS. FJS is a product of its own misfortune and lack of resources, you clearly see when things were going well they churned out some impressive products in XP11 ( 727 737) but stumbled at XP12 for various reasons by focusing on development of a new product for XP12 - it was clear that this was harder than they thought and in my view they overdid the complexity of the model with internal tricks and stuff so in the middle of it all the main man goes down or strikes personal hurdles that bring the enterprise to a crawl. They did I believe in good faith say they would upgrade the older products but just did not have the resources (time and iniitiative). I know they got in some help but not sure where that went. Either way not the first sole trader to hit the wall and the risks now are very high of failure altogether in a business sense. 

I accept now it cannot be done and won't be done and they would not be the first developer to sucumb to such pressures and the hand of fate. Wish them no ill at all but think it is only a matter of time before the Q400 becomes an orphan too, that is just a hard nosed business perspective, this is a company heading for failure, sorry it is not personal. 

 

11 minutes ago, coastaldriver said:

Well we may lose developers but not because of the state of FJS

You completely missed the point. Its called "self entitlement " and is rife in today society, especially with the young. 

I bought a car 20 years ago I want a free update.

To add, certain people promised us cheap electricity, im still waiting.

Edited October 10, 2025Oct 10 by mjrhealth

Wish him all the best. He must have worked thousands of hours and now cannot invest a few more days to port it to XP12... Sad.

The disrespectful behaviour towards devs, even good ones, becomes a recurrent problem in our community. I am in no way related to any dev or am a dev myself but the critics that I come across sometimes, is simply disgusting. People really think a dev owes them everything. There is nothing Jack did wrong. He had plans and had to change them after being sick. And he communicated that openly. Still, some will whine about.

10 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

Well we may lose developers but not because of the state of FJS. FJS is a product of its own misfortune and lack of resources, you clearly see when things were going well they churned out some impressive products in XP11 ( 727 737) but stumbled at XP12 for various reasons by focusing on development of a new product for XP12 - it was clear that this was harder than they thought and in my view they overdid the complexity of the model with internal tricks and stuff so in the middle of it all the main man goes down or strikes personal hurdles that bring the enterprise to a crawl. They did I believe in good faith say they would upgrade the older products but just did not have the resources (time and iniitiative). I know they got in some help but not sure where that went. Either way not the first sole trader to hit the wall and the risks now are very high of failure altogether in a business sense. 

I accept now it cannot be done and won't be done and they would not be the first developer to sucumb to such pressures and the hand of fate. Wish them no ill at all but think it is only a matter of time before the Q400 becomes an orphan too, that is just a hard nosed business perspective, this is a company heading for failure, sorry it is not personal. 

 

Overall agree, however the Q400 was released as a v11 product. So while it may have been a struggle to update it for v12, v12 wasn’t the issue. 

There has been quite a bit of work done to it over the course of v12, as well. Performance optimizations, etc. 

I fear v12 will be the end of the line for the Q400, just as v11 is for the Boeings. 
I HOPE Jack passes the baton, instead. 

5 hours ago, Mike44 said:

Wish him all the best. He must have worked thousands of hours and now cannot invest a few more days to port it to XP12... Sad.

IIRC, the plan had been to release a re-build as v4. So whatever work happened, didn’t happen to the v3 for XP 11. 

If it was “just a few days” to “port it”, they would’ve done or announced it already. Sheesh - you’ve little idea of that which you speak. 

you DO realize there are other Hi Fi devs that still haven’t brought their v11 addons forward…right? Almost like it must be quite a bit more work than you imagine…

6 hours ago, Mike44 said:

Wish him all the best. He must have worked thousands of hours and now cannot invest a few more days to port it to XP12... Sad.

There have being many addons that where completely dropped, because it woul require a complete rebuild, especially if they where from pre xp11. Its not that simple.

6 hours ago, Franz007 said:

The disrespectful behaviour towards devs, even good ones, becomes a recurrent problem in our community. I am in no way related to any dev or am a dev myself but the critics that I come across sometimes, is simply disgusting. People really think a dev owes them everything. There is nothing Jack did wrong. He had plans and had to change them after being sick. And he communicated that openly. Still, some will whine about.

I agree.

I sympathize because I suffered from tendonitis. This could impact your entire livelihood as a developer. It became so bad that I was unable to hold a knife to cut objects or even turn the handle of a doorknob. Fortunately, I was in a financial position where I was able to take a year off from work to recover. Anyone who has not been in that position would not understand the many challenges.

2 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

There have being many addons that where completely dropped, because it woul require a complete rebuild, especially if they where from pre xp11. Its not that simple.

So true seems to be a volatile business paved with the road of good intentions. Then again LM is also making and breaking things with its development of XPlane which is to be honest very hard for developers of all persuasions to come to grips with or update and rebuild. Saw it all happen in FSX and P3D nothing new alas - unless you happen to have invested the time and effort and money in the software as a customer or user in the first place seems to be way the world is at the moment. 

The big one for the scenery side of things is the cluster that is SAM. Now abandoned and completely incompatible with XP12 I have spend hours weeding out and removing scenery packages that used SAM (no matter how pretty or well done they were otherwise) and that includes some not so old XP12 payware releases that used SAM. SAM is toxic to XP12 not just because it won't work but causes sim crashes and corruption issues. Bottom line a hell of a lot of people relied on using this plugin software with their work. The list is quite significant. 

Bigger picture, recently my Telco began upgrading their network software - the outcome has been diabolical at a nation level - not just degraded or erratic services but people unable to access 000 emergency on their phones and dying as a result. I have suffered the impact with the services I had but the word not allowed outcome - oh your WIFI modem is now outdated (Code for no longer works and now go and buy another one). Makes the customer service from the Sim community quite exemplary by comparison. 

As for FJS always happy to pay for an updated version of what they did - more saddened by the impact - after all we all go through life problems that we cannot forsee and which can be devestating at worse or more. We all seem to have forgotten the misery and upheaval that was Covid. 

I think the buggest issue, which needed to be done, beginning with xp11. Was Laminar, finally forcing developers to compliance. They simply could not get mire efficient while addins where breaking things and not complying. Now its mainly users demanding more, forcing developers to spend time on stupid things like toilets that flush.

5 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

stupid things like toilets that flush.

I just can’t understand the potty fixation…

I guess I’ve IRL experienced too many aircraft lavs! Practically PTSD inducing in a flight sim 😂

Agree totally - The SAM stuff up forced me to so a fresh sim program install and then a big clean up of all things non compliant in the sim. Not just scenery but aircraft models and other plugins. Sure was a lot of stuff that I thought gee that was really well done but now useless or damaged.