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Guest Adrian Wainer

How many copies of MSFS get sold?

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That source shows that the world-wide weighted average is over 57% This suggests that the original suggestion of 20% is way too low given AVSIM's membership is world-wide!

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All of these percentages and numbers floating around are great, however there are more FS Fan sites other than AVSIM, right? I mean come on let's not get too big of a head here, although this is the only (GREATEST!) FS site *I* use, I imagine others may have the same dedicated group who just don't set foot here at AVSIM?

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Guest Adrian Wainer

>> It doesn't clarify anything. We all know there is a>>problem in Asia. But, trying to extrapolate that to the>whole>>of the membership here is rubbish. You've accused 20% of us>>here of running pirated copies of FSX. Either prove it or>>retract it. >>>>Doug>>I don't think he needs to apologize. His estimate of 20% is>probably even too low.>>These are statistics on piracy in various countries:>>http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_...are-piracy-rate>>US has the lowest piracy rate at 22%, and considering that>AVSIM has members from all over the world and not only US, I'd>say it's statistically impossible that less than 20% of AVSIM>members are pirates. Like it or not.>>Marco>>QuoteI'd say it's statistically impossible that less than 20% of AVSIMmembers are pirates. Like it or not.UnQuoteHi Marco, There are lies, there are #### lies and there are statistics, ever met a couple with 2.4 children? You are in fact expressing an opinion on a possability and presenting it in the terms of concrete fact.Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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Guest RichardL

Those total sales numbers, if even somewhat correct, sure can change your perspective as to what we the flight simulator community should expect in a product. I sometimes read statements saying "What do you expect from MSFS_, you only paid $60.00 for the program. It's not like you are buying a $1 million dollar flight simulator".Here's a thought. What difference does it make to the bottom line dollar if a company makes $5 million dollars from selling five, $1 million dollar flight simulators, or by selling 84,000 copies of a $60.00 flight simulator? (I hope my math is correct) It's still the same dollar amount in sales.May be an over simplification but still something to think about.Richard

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> You are in fact expressing an opinion on a possability and >presenting it in the terms of concrete fact.No he isn't. Read what he actually said "I'd say it's statistically impossible that less than 20% of AVSIM members are pirates. Like it or not." That's a perfectly valid conclusion from the evidence that the world-wide average is 57%.

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There is no doubt Flight Simulator is a multi-million dollar gross sales product for Microsoft.It's also pretty obvious that it takes a few million dollars a year for the development team, several tens, maybe hundreds of thousands to buy data, probably millions of dollars for production, packaging and shipping. Plus the cut for the retailers.Microsoft will be lucky to get $20 of each $60 sale - and very lucky if $4 of that is gross profit.The total numbers are huge - until you look at other products in the Microsoft line.Frankly, it's my opinion that if Flight Simulator doesn't make $10 million gross profit for Microsoft - it will be discontinued.Microsoft is a BIG company and messing with chump change products is something they cannot afford. A million dollar per year gross profit is too small for the investment necessary.To a 40 year old - $1 million is 25% of what we need to retire. To MS it's pocket change.What do you get for you $60 ?For each FS developer when Vista gets 20, or Office gets 15.The best world wide navigation, airport, road, coastline, landclass, terrain data available.But as has been amply demonstrated - the 'best available' data has big holes, issues when you try to go the level of detail FS fans demand.So you get a framework for endless customization - which is the real secret to the success of FS, this website and this community.

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>To a 40 year old - $1 million is 25% of what we need to>retire. To MS it's pocket change.Lol, i'm in my fourties and 50% of those 25% would be enough for my retirement.


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According to the best investment advice I can find, it takes 2.4 million dollars in cash/ savings to guarantee $50,000 yearly after tax income today without shrinking the principle. The principle needs to grow so the yearly income can grow and avoid 'out living' your money.For someone who is 40, it will probably take about $4 million to produce $65,000 yearly after tax income when they are 60.It's friggin scary that someone who is 55 like me who hoped to someday earn $10,000 per year - has made over a million in my working lifetime and will make close to another million before I retire at age 68.And still be living only a moderate middle class lifestyle with no real inflation/ increased cost of living protection. :-(I didn't make 40K until after I retired from the Navy. My children make that near age 30 and it's not enough income to buy a house in a decent neighborhood.

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Guest fsxmissionguy

Reg ... at the risk of getting this post moved to the "Personal Finance" forum ... I question whether you have received the best financial advice you can find.Your numbers suggest quite a high lifestyle. Here's why I say this.By the time you retire, you shouldn't have any debt, especially a mortgage (only takes 30 years to pay off a mortgage).Your annual cost of living should be, therefore, extremely low, relative to your pre-retirement costs. $50,000 per year after taxes seems very high when you consider that your only expenses should be food/clothing, entertainment/travel, transportation expenses and health/life insurance (since you're now Medicaid/Medicare eligible, your actual medical expenses should be relatively low).You also suggest that the principal never can be spent, and needs to grow so you don't outlive your money, but $2.4 million / $50,000 = 48 years.If you retire at 65 ... +48 years puts you at 113. Average lifespan of an American male is currently 80.3 years. You only have 15 years left (on average) after 65.If you retired at 65 with $2.4 million in assets, you could theoretically spend $160,000 a year, just in time to die at 80. Heck, just live on $100,000 and leave your kids a nice inheritance.When you retire, there is almost no situation where you would "grow" out of middle class if that's where you were pre-retirement. So, your goal should be to maintain your current lifestyle throughout retirement.So, add up all your non-debt related living expenses, put a cushion in for emergencies and multiply that amount by 20 years, just in case you live to 85.I bet it won't add up to $2.4 million.

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I think he's assuming a 0 dollar starting point at age 40, which is where more and more Americans are these days.I'm getting ready to go through the same thing only with an inheritance at my age which is now 37.However if you're using your numbers depending on where and what vehicle you choose (assuming agressive for now) adjusted for infaltion, starting with around 200-400k, most vehicles should average any where on the agressive side what? 10-13% let's say, most tax free (until withdrawal), that should break him over the 1M mark in about 7-9 years, and generate closer to the double digit (19)M mark in his 70-80's.....give or take.Taking out about 1K per 200-300K per month compounding to about 100K per year at his age 60-65 mark.I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of may head, but I believe those are fairly close to what you're saying...again...give or take a few.


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When my father retired at age 62 in 1987 - his pension and SS was a whopping total of $18,300 per year - and my mother's SS was $8,300 per year.Pretty good living at the time.Today his income is $23,750 per year - his and my mother's supplement Medicare medical insurance and prescription costs are over $800 per month through his old company (IP) health plan - leaving $14,150 for living expenses.In 1995 he had to liquidate 50% of their net worth (less home and one car) when Mom went into a nursing home with Altzheimer's. They had to sell the boat, the camper trailer, the truck to pull them and the land for that vacation home they were going to build. Of course they receive none of her SS payments (she's still alive - he visits her three times a day - feeds her each meal - demands her care be excellent - he's done that all but fourteen days in the past 11 years 8 months).He is very well off compared to his contemporaries who are still alive. He's luck to live in a small town in Arkansas where expenses are low and being a child of a sharecropper in the depression, his tastes and needs are very simple.But he could not afford a trip to Europe to see it nice as opposed to his last visit in 1944-45 - something he has wanted to do for 40 years. He needs help from the kids to repair the car (we want him to replace it - hard headed old coot won't hear of it).No matter how you add up the money, no matter how you expect it to go:1. Expenses are going to be MUCH higher than you expect - especially medical care,2. Investments and cost of living increases are not going to keep up with the rising cost of living.You can out live your money - and if you are planning to do some of the things you have put off for years raising kids and working for retirement - you will need your old take home pay level.

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Guest babua

A million dollars at retirement!! Wow! in india with that kind of money here is what I'll get:1. If invested in only bank fixed deposit then I'll get $130,000 every year only on interest earning. Adjust for 5% inflation and 20% tax leaves me with cool $97000-A very rich man indeed in India.2. If I give it to an investment firm then they'll guarantee me 23% return YoY so thats about $175000 after inflation and tax-very very rich man indeed.To get a perspective what you can do with that kind of money in India, the purchase power parity between US and India is 1:6 which means its equivalent to earning and living a lifestyle of 175,000x6=$1,000,000 per annum in USA!!

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Guest wyoming

It'd be long dead by now. The purpose is a contribution to the cool/PC/geek/creative image barely surviving from the 70s and still generating lots of profits elsewhere, including on the OS. It's a contribution to the capital-image. You would pay the same and probably more in PR or advertising without an "object" to show for it.

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