3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

How do you like their rendition? I have some of their jets, but have never been “in love” with them (as I already am with the T-38!).

I'd say I am not "in love" with it, but I also would say I'm probably not qualified to speak on it.  For one, I haven't flown it enough, and two, I have never flown one in real life.

I do think it's neat the way it is modelled, in the sense that...you really do have to mind the speed on approach.  I think they did a good job there, and they could have not bothered with that....like we see with some fast jet add-ons.   As a whole, I want to fly it more but don't have the time right now.

I picked this up yesterday. Enjoying it more than I expected! 

On 12/8/2025 at 9:29 AM, jcomm said:

Sorry for stolling ya thtread 🙂 

The T-37B, free for FS 2024:

VrilleAPlat Releases Impressive Freeware Cessna T-37B for MSFS - FSNews

Cessna T-37B Tweet for Microsoft Flight Simulator | MSFS

 

Thank you for the recommendation, it is indeed a wonderful little plane that is very fun to fly and very tricky to land (better have a 9000ft runway available).

4 hours ago, Flying Goat said:

Thank you for the recommendation, it is indeed a wonderful little plane that is very fun to fly and very tricky to land (better have a 9000ft runway available).

Forgot the airbrake? 😁

3 hours ago, roland_lfor said:

Forgot the airbrake? 😁

I'm not sure we're supposed to use the airbrake for touchdown, the bundled manual is silent about landing procedure and I haven't found another online. From real-life videos the plane does take forever to slow down from 100 to 50kts though (or you can cheat and retract the flaps during the flare and have it drop on the runway for good).

1 hour ago, Flying Goat said:

I'm not sure we're supposed to use the airbrake for touchdown, the bundled manual is silent about landing procedure and I haven't found another online. From real-life videos the plane does take forever to slow down from 100 to 50kts though (or you can cheat and retract the flaps during the flare and have it drop on the runway for good).

I can look it up again as I know I have it filed away somewhere, but IIRC for this aircraft, no brakes in the pattern, definitely okay post-touchdown (i guess think of them like spoilers on an airliner). I use them every single time for any fast jet where it's possible (the Hawk is one where the brake is inop once the gear are extended due to belly placement).

In the F-15, the IRL pilots even extend their giant honkin' airbrake a bit before the mains hit the ground(!).

Because of their placement on the belly and relatively small size on the T-38, they're not super effective, but in a jet like this, every bit helps.

It's also a real thing to aerobrake on the mains until speed drops to under 120-ish (the drag of keeping the nose up at roughly 10 deg is substantially more effective than the burning out the brakes 🙂 ).

In contrast, some of the older and newer jets extend the brakes during the pattern, e.g. the Tomcat and F-16. The BAe 146 also uses full brake extension during steep glideslope approaches (at least), in addition to post-touchdown.

On the older jets, it was more a technique of keeping the engine spooled up so it would remain responsive & have effective thrust during low speed patterns/final, etc. For the F-16, it's so dang slick it just can't slow down without the brakes out during the approach/pattern 😉 

Also, flaps are a great source of drag IRL, so it's good to keep them out to help decrease speed. Of course, YMMV in-sim depending on the developer.

p.s., it also occurred to me that some IRL fast jet procedures call for full-aft on the stick after the nose is solidly down. Also helps increase drag 😎

again, YMMV in-sim as some devs do not correctly model post-touchdown dynamics and you can easily rotate the nose at ridiculously low speeds  

Edited December 11, 2025Dec 11 by UrgentSiesta

Yes, you airbrake by pitching the nose up, and use speed brakes. You're supposed to land it 150 knots ish, once the nose comes down from air braking then i mash the brake pads. 

On 12/11/2025 at 11:19 PM, UrgentSiesta said:

I can look it up again as I know I have it filed away somewhere, but IIRC for this aircraft, no brakes in the pattern, definitely okay post-touchdown (i guess think of them like spoilers on an airliner). I use them every single time for any fast jet where it's possible (the Hawk is one where the brake is inop once the gear are extended due to belly placement).

In the F-15, the IRL pilots even extend their giant honkin' airbrake a bit before the mains hit the ground(!).

Because of their placement on the belly and relatively small size on the T-38, they're not super effective, but in a jet like this, every bit helps.

It's also a real thing to aerobrake on the mains until speed drops to under 120-ish (the drag of keeping the nose up at roughly 10 deg is substantially more effective than the burning out the brakes 🙂 ).

In contrast, some of the older and newer jets extend the brakes during the pattern, e.g. the Tomcat and F-16. The BAe 146 also uses full brake extension during steep glideslope approaches (at least), in addition to post-touchdown.

On the older jets, it was more a technique of keeping the engine spooled up so it would remain responsive & have effective thrust during low speed patterns/final, etc. For the F-16, it's so dang slick it just can't slow down without the brakes out during the approach/pattern 😉 

Also, flaps are a great source of drag IRL, so it's good to keep them out to help decrease speed. Of course, YMMV in-sim depending on the developer.

p.s., it also occurred to me that some IRL fast jet procedures call for full-aft on the stick after the nose is solidly down. Also helps increase drag 😎

again, YMMV in-sim as some devs do not correctly model post-touchdown dynamics and you can easily rotate the nose at ridiculously low speeds  

Thank you for the comprehensive answer. My question was actually about the T-37 but your explanation still stands as it encounters the same landing challenge as the T-38 (though at a slower speed). I finally found some USAF manual for the aircraft and indeed you were right, the airbrake is supposed to be extended during landing. Should make things easier in the future, though it was a good training to try without :)

On 12/11/2025 at 3:50 PM, Flying Goat said:

... the bundled manual is silent about landing procedure and I haven't found another online. 

On Dec 12 I received an email reply from AeroDynamics support that said: "Currently, the manual is being created, but not complete. "

Where did you find a bundled manual?

15 minutes ago, TacomaSailor said:

On Dec 12 I received an email reply from AeroDynamics support that said: "Currently, the manual is being created, but not complete. "

Where did you find a bundled manual?

The discord has links to both the IRL aircraft & USAF procedures (available on the interwebs, in any case). 

the aircraft is simple enough that should more than suffice 🤙

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA536258.pdf
 

probably the coolest research paper you can read. I learned a lot from this paper. I think there is like 30 or so different strategies to land the T-38. Talks about crack, roll all that lingo. Assuming it means crack the throttle. One interesting find is that students with a hud are prone to land long due to fixation. I can attest that in sim the t-38 a is indeed easier to hit your mark because your focus points are entirely different (more gauge oriented and field oriented). Had to learn how to not fixate on the flight path marker when using a hud. 

Edited December 13, 2025Dec 13 by Sweetd31

The old MilViz T-38A user manual is still available online and has quite detailed procedures.

Edited December 14, 2025Dec 14 by odourboy

18 minutes ago, odourboy said:

The old MilViz T-38A user manual is still available online and has quite detailed procedures.

The MilViz C-model manual is, as well.

https://milviz.com/Online_products/Manuals/T-38C_User_Guide_P3D.pdf

👍

Edited December 14, 2025Dec 14 by UrgentSiesta

This week I was on a course with a load of USAF guys including a couple of T38C instructors, and some F15,F16 & F35 pilots.

I should have picked up some landing tips !.

I did show a picture of the new T38C sim cockpit to one of the T38 guys who said it was identical to the real thing ( as we know). He also confirmed they use a desktop sim in training so I said I thought that was probably the milviz product.

On 12/7/2025 at 8:21 AM, UrgentSiesta said:

But, it may be that we finally have another really good fast jet for MSFS that has accurate systems AND handles well (even demonstrating some of the T-38's notoriously dangerous "gotchas" to a certain degree).

I haven't had a chance to dig into Aero Dynamics version of the sophisticated avionics yet (they even seem to have replicated the Talon-C's virtual air combat and ground attack visualization systems (the IRL Talon carries no ordnance at all)). But the basics of what I remember from the MilViz bird seem to be there so far. I'll have to spend more time than my first Kick The Tires and Light The Fires joy ride today 😉

I’d be interested in what you think about the T 38C if you’ve had a chance to fly it some more?

I’ve been flying it the last few days and am seriously enjoying it.

It doesn’t seem to “rock and roll” like the old milviz T38 A used to as it approached the stall , but from what I’ve read a lot of that was engineered out of the C version so may well be quite accurate. I’ve also read reports from guys with T38 experience on avsim say they thought the milviz T38 A rock and roll was too exaggerated 

Reading pilot reports online they mention the T38 not having a typical nose drop at the stall but rather maintaining a level attitude and dropping almost vertically like a stone. That seems to be exactly what this new T38C does.

Their videos seem to be narrated by a RW T38C driver so it’s all pointing to a very nice accurate rendition.