It's quite stunning to me as to how many people don't seem to care if they end up being lied to, and not only that, but being thoroughly deceived. Ignoring the principle is essentially equivalent to missing the forest for the trees. And beyond that, why is it always this particular developer that sparks these controversies? "If you don't like the price, then don't buy it" is condescending and tone deaf. I have more than enough means to buy any add-ons I choose to, but that is not the point. What I view as "fair" is not based on the size of my bank account.

Cheers, Pete

8 minutes ago, RNAVV19R said:

I agree. For example, we have people whining about opinions they disagree with.

How many time you go to the store and express your opinion about merchandise you are not going to buy? PMDG has not released 737 yet. No prices given. What is to discuss? Don't buy - don't whine, simple as that 🙂 

36 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

It's quite stunning to me as to how many people don't seem to care if they end up being lied to, and not only that, but being thoroughly deceived. Ignoring the principle is essentially equivalent to missing the forest for the trees. And beyond that, why is it always this particular developer that sparks these controversies? "If you don't like the price, then don't buy it" is condescending and tone deaf. I have more than enough means to buy any add-ons I choose to, but that is not the point. What I view as "fair" is not based on the size of my bank account.

Cheers, Pete

Sorry but your missing the point. 

Its not that a good portion of us dont seem to care.. We do care actually, some of us appear to be a little more emotionally unattached to these issues and can rationally evaluate the good vs the bad  come to a judgement and act accordingly (without making too much of a scene about it) 

Example 1. the 777 soundset. Poorly done by PMDG and no replacement yet even though promised. I parked the AC and flew something else until a solution was found. If none was to be found it would have been the last 777 i would have purchased from them. (Speak with your wallet) 

Example 2. The missing of deadlines. Devs miss deadlines all the time... you can have a moan about it when you hear about it initially but at some point what can you do about it apart from moving on with your life ? 

It seems to me like some people cannot simply make their value assessment and move on with life. The funny thing is that in this instance the dev hasn't even provided the full value proposition (No upgrade cost posted)  for anyone to make a decision about yet the usual familiar group of people feel it is of  their utmost duty to re litigate how many times PMDG has wronged them.

The product is a 737... apart from the things you expect to see in a 737 (Ill give you CPDLC), some bug fixes and a texture update what else did you expect ? Mind you that still requires people to be paid ...You all forgot that the ENTIRE 777 series was upgraded to 2024 for free ? You expect them to do the same after so many years for their 737 as well ? Really ?

I know i am the minority here so ill go back to microwaving the popcorn and watching. 

I dont have a problem expressing why i wont buy from a dev or why i wont buy a devs product but i wont be making a crusade over it. This is how it seems when PMDG's name appears and its kinda sad. Im not buying Robert Randazzo, im buying a PMDG 737-800 and i will evaluate the product on its merits and if it meets my value proposition ill buy it.. If it does not like quite a few devs that i have not purchased from then i state my reason once and move on .. Why grovel ?

Edited December 18, 2025Dec 18 by Maxis

39 minutes ago, RNAVV19R said:

It's not childish to say that one product is better than the other. Rarely are two products equal in terms of quality. It's perfectly fine to share that opinion. In fact, it is very helpful when people do so. The more data there is for potential buyers, the more informed they will be when deciding between those products. 

What a cop out answer.  

we’ve got IRL Boeing pilots on here who don’t agree that their products are “inferior” to the other devs

If their NG were inferior, that’d have come out long ago  and we’d all be hanging out in the iFly posts, or cross training for Airbus  

instead, we see by the buzz that a ton of people want their next hit of PMDG and are upset that they won’t get it for free  

so yeah, if someone prefers iFly or Fenix, so be it  

I’d just like to see their bona fides before lending any credence to declarations of inferiority and market worth  

THOSE, somehow, never seem to be forthcoming from the loudest complainers, do they…?

 

31 minutes ago, Maxis said:

Sorry but your missing the point. 

Its not that a good portion of us dont seem to care.. We do care actually, some of us appear to be a little more emotionally unattached to these issues and can rationally evaluate the good vs the bad  come to a judgement and act accordingly (without making too much of a scene about it) 

Example 1. the 777 soundset. Poorly done by PMDG and no replacement yet even though promised. I parked the AC and flew something else until a solution was found. If none was to be found it would have been the last 777 i would have purchased from them. (Speak with your wallet) 

Example 2. The missing of deadlines. Devs miss deadlines all the time... you can have a moan about it when you hear about it initially but at some point what can you do about it apart from moving on with your life ? 

It seems to me like some people cannot simply make their value assessment and move on with life. The funny thing is that in this instance the dev hasn't even provided the full value proposition (No upgrade cost posted)  for anyone to make a decision about yet the usual familiar group of people feel it is of  their utmost duty to re litigate how many times PMDG has wronged them.

The product is a 737... apart from the things you expect to see in a 737 (Ill give you CPDLC), some bug fixes and a texture update what else did you expect ? Mind you that still requires people to be paid ...You all forgot that the ENTIRE 777 series was upgraded to 2024 for free ? You expect them to do the same after so many years for their 737 as well ? Really ?

I know i am the minority here so ill go back to microwaving the popcorn and watching. 

I dont have a problem expressing why i wont buy from a dev or why i wont buy a devs product but i wont be making a crusade over it. This is how it seems when PMDG's name appears and it’s kinda sad. Im not buying Robert Randazzo, im buying a PMDG 737-800 and i will evaluate the product on its merits and if it meets my value proposition ill buy it.. If it does not like quite a few devs that i have not purchased from then i state my reason once and move on .. Why grovel ?

I Think you may be misinterpreting my point. I’m a CPA, and I’ve been one for 25+ years, all in public accounting. There’s no emotional attachment for me whatsoever, and I’m simply opining on a particular business practice. As someone who has been in client service for most of my adult life, my issue is strictly related to what I see, as deception. It’s very simple. If a business doesn’t want to take heat for possibly pulling a bait and switch, then perhaps they should be careful about making any knee-jerk representations. 
 

Cheers, Pete

2 hours ago, bigifooti said:

thanks all for the discussion of something that will become clear tomorrow.

 

does anyone know around what time it is released. previous pmdg lanches were more of a European evening release.

The last communication on release timing suggests a European evening release:

"Currently we are looking at a release date late this week, with the target currently set to 18DEC25, sometime after 17Z".

boeing would not be endorsing PMDG for the future in class tablet version to all their students type rating classes and recurrents if it was not good.. plus those of us who have used PMDG since the beginning of time, know the quality ... it speaks for itselft. Nothing is close in the boeing line, for any sim... not close... fenix is airbus guys, and yeah, they are close, but it's the PMDG of airbus. PMDG will never do airbus and the market has Fenix, the best in that product. 

I can't wait...to me the money is nothing as it's less than a grocery store run and lasts forever relatively... a huge bargain.

Imagine the sims without PMDG. How happy would you be? You would be uisng asobo 737. blah blah!

 

PMDG makes enough money to afford a real falcon 50. so....

Would someone braver than me be willing to make a dedicated PMDG 737 ‘24 thread tomorrow for people who actually buy the plane so we can discuss the quality and performance without the cost aspect?

And for those who want to chat cash can be in this thread or siphoned off into another dedicated thread? 

Edited December 18, 2025Dec 18 by MikeV1

Never mind.

Edited December 18, 2025Dec 18 by BrammyH

41 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

As someone who has been in client service for most of my adult life, my issue is strictly related to what I see, as deception. It’s very simple. If a business doesn’t want to take heat for possibly pulling a bait and switch, then perhaps they should be careful about making any knee-jerk representations. 

 

What exactly is the bait and switch here?? What is the deception? They first said the cost of the 2020->2024 upgrade would be the cost of a few cups of coffee (or whatever RSR exactly said). The 2024 product has now been out there to plain to see on multiple previews for a couple of weeks. The actual upgrade price will be announced tomorrow and not known yet.

After the upgrade price is announced, it's up to the user to assess the value proposition and then say "naa not worth it", or "I'm in". PMDG is not baiting anyone to give up money or anything else in order to then switch things on them.

If PMDG feel they have done a lot of work on the upgrade, they can claim that as they please, or whatever else for that matter. If based on the plenty of previews/reviews one feels that not enough was done, then easy: Don't. Buy. It.

No dev owes the user base free or trivially priced updates of their add-ons for a new version of a sim (altho any smart dev should, given what other competing devs are doing). If they are being ridiculous in asking too much for not enough work done, vote with your wallet, and let the market will speak.

11 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

 

What exactly is the bait and switch here?? What is the deception? They first said the cost of the 2020->2024 upgrade would be the cost of a few cups of coffee (or whatever RSR exactly said). The 2024 product has now been out there to plain to see on multiple previews for a couple of weeks. The actual upgrade price will be announced tomorrow and not known yet.

After the upgrade price is announced, it's up to the user to assess the value proposition and then say "naa not worth it", or "I'm in". PMDG is not baiting anyone to give up money or anything else in order to then switch things on them.

If PMDG feel they have done a lot of work on the upgrade, they can claim that as they please, or whatever else for that matter. If based on the plenty of previews/reviews one feels that not enough was done, then easy: Don't. Buy. It.

No dev owes the user base free or trivially priced updates of their add-ons for a new version of a sim (altho any smart dev should, given what other competing devs are doing). If they are being ridiculous in asking too much for not enough work done, vote with your wallet, and let the market will speak.

Nothing beyond your first paragraph is relevant to my point. IF they price the upgrade substantially more than the “couple of cups of coffee” that they originally reported, then that constitutes lying in my view. You don’t have to agree, and for the fifth time, this has NOTHING to do with whether any of us think that the price is “worth it.” I don’t care if it’s worth it or not. Why do you reference what the developer is perceived to “owe” to us, when I’ve not mentioned that even once? Please don’t respond to comments that I did not make. Perhaps someone can actually take the time to read, and comprehend, what I wrote. 
 

Cheers, Pete

7 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

IF they price the upgrade substantially more than the “couple of cups of coffee” that they originally reported, then that constitutes lying in my view. 

 

Well by that standard, if a dev says anything months before release and it doesn't exactly pan out like that then it's a lie.. i.e. If they say it will release on date X but it actually released 3 months later than that, then they lied, and so on and so forth. But sure, you're absolutely entitled to that view 🤷‍♂️

But there is still no baiting and switching going on here I'm afraid.

33 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

Nothing beyond your first paragraph is relevant to my point. IF they price the upgrade substantially more than the “couple of cups of coffee” that they originally reported, then that constitutes lying in my view. You don’t have to agree, and for the fifth time, this has NOTHING to do with whether any of us think that the price is “worth it.” I don’t care if it’s worth it or not. Why do you reference what the developer is perceived to “owe” to us, when I’ve not mentioned that even once? Please don’t respond to comments that I did not make. Perhaps someone can actually take the time to read, and comprehend, what I wrote. 
 

Cheers, Pete

So, in your 25 years of work with all your clients, none of them have ever simply changed their minds about anything…?

or do you refuse to work with them when they do…?

oh, and how about in reverse - have you ever had to go back to a client and ask for more money because the situation changed…?

“Stuff” happens and guess what - we either decide the value prop is reasonable or not. 

PMDG isn’t under contract with us, nor the reverse. 

And don’t forget, since we can all vote with our wallets, you can bet PMDG is keenly aware of the value prop they need to deliver, esp under these circumstances. There’s no way they’re blind to the success of Fenix, ini, iFly, et al. 

just by charging ANYTHING for the update, they’re bound to lose customers. 

but you’ve been in business long enough to realize that some customers just aren’t worth the hassle of dealing with them. And the easiest way to get them to go away and be quiet is by raising your prices. 

helps keep the riff raff out., y’know…? 😎

Edited December 18, 2025Dec 18 by UrgentSiesta

45 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

Nothing beyond your first paragraph is relevant to my point. IF they price the upgrade substantially more than the “couple of cups of coffee” that they originally reported, then that constitutes lying in my view. 
 

Cheers, Pete

Ok .. so they are lying (The horror .. they are horrible people)  .. and you have scolded them for it ...  

What now?

How does them allegedly lying (pure speculation may i add)  affect the actual product that we get to actually assess tomorrow? This is exactly what i meant about being unattached, 

I dunno .. all i care about is if the product works as advertised and there are meaningful improvements ... and the price is right. 

 

Have a good one. 

 

Edited December 18, 2025Dec 18 by Maxis

3 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

How many time you go to the store and express your opinion about merchandise you are not going to buy? PMDG has not released 737 yet. No prices given. What is to discuss? Don't buy - don't whine, simple as that 🙂 

My first post in this thread was a reply to someone saying that $20 would be reasonable when other devs are providing higher quality updates for free and PMDG stated it would be the price of a cup of coffee.

That's how the discussion started.