Edited March 17Mar 17 by jcomm

Yep, great video demonstrating my biggest criticism of MSFS very precisely.  Crosswind landings are nicely simulated and I'm able to fly them pretty much exactly as I would IRL... right up until my wheels touch the ground.  Then all *&^#* breaks loose and nothing is as it is IRL.  So frustrating and makes me almost dread crosswind situations because I know that no matter how well I manage the landing, once I touch down it's going to be an unrealistic fight.

Reports seemed to indicate that this was improved in 2024.  Well - it may be a bit better, but it's still not where it should be.

 

Scott

Edited March 17Mar 17 by tttocs
typo

I don’t know if it’s a language barrier or something else but his video don’t show a lack of friction. They show too much. Specifically at the point of touchdown during a crosswind landing. The second the wheels touch the ground, the airplane shoots immediately and perfectly in the direction the nose is pointed. There needs to be some type of inertia calculation where the airplane skids a bit and then the wheels grip the runway and then moves in the direction the nose is pointed. This process take a only a second or two in the real world but it makes a huge difference in how the an airplane feels in the real world compared to the sim.
 

I agree with his point that once your on the roll out of a landing or during a takeoff the wind has way to much effect on the plane. Thars not realistic with these transport category airplanes. In strong winds, the airplane will weathervane but th ground friction keeps the airplane surprisingly steady. 

The sideways movement of the aircraft on touchdown indicates a lack of lateral friction to me. I have always thought that this is the case in MSFS, considering the way that the nosewheel often feels like a shopping trolley on ice when the slightest lateral movement is asserted on my joystick as I accelerate down the runway.

Edited March 17Mar 17 by Christopher Low

As far as I'm aware the ground friction model is something aircraft developers have to activate and tweak. It does not simply work out of the box. So it is best to check this with aircraft where this has been implemented like the default C172.

24 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I don’t know if it’s a language barrier or something else but his video don’t show a lack of friction. They show too much. Specifically at the point of touchdown during a crosswind landing. The second the wheels touch the ground, the airplane shoots immediately and perfectly in the direction the nose is pointed.

We sure must be looking at something differently, no language even necessary.  When the mains touch, the wheels immediately slide sideways as though the plane were landing on ice (BTDT 🙂), not dry pavement.  Sure the planes inertia would have SOME impact, but not like this.  Not sure how this could be interpreted as too much friction.

 

28 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I agree with his point that once your on the roll out of a landing or during a takeoff the wind has way to much effect on the plane. Thars not realistic with these transport category airplanes. In strong winds, the airplane will weathervane but th ground friction keeps the airplane surprisingly steady. 

On this we can agree - in fact it's not realistic even with modest sized tricycle gear GA aircraft.  It makes everything feel almost like you're in a wood and fabric taildragger.

 

Scott

Absolutely agree - this is my biggest gripe.  I've been blown off the runway in MSFS in the TBM and other aircraft that I had no issue with in the RW in a C152!

Crosswind takeoffs are also way off of reality.

I am tempted to believe some of the best models for FS 2024 should already be using the new ground physics parameters, yet, they aren't there 100%...

Maybe we can get further updates down the road...

All flightsims I have used have their quirks with the ground physics though... X-Plane has a very complex model, but for some aircraft it's still weird... Even DCS leaves something to be desired and has a simplified ground physics model not to mention that the effective crosswind component is nilled bellow a given rolling speed... 

One of the best I have used so far is still IL-2 Great Battles.

it's also on the aircraft developer to properly use the sim's ground physics. It's not universal to all aircraft, there's parameters that can be tweaked per aircraft.

1 hour ago, Farlis said:

As far as I'm aware the ground friction model is something aircraft developers have to activate and tweak. It does not simply work out of the box. So it is best to check this with aircraft where this has been implemented like the default C172.

It's not the developers can't get it right on ground friction. It's an Asobo way of how all ac handle on the ground. Until Asobo allow aircraft developers have control on ground friction it's not going to get any better anytime soon. I hate the nose wheel scrubbing when trying to make a turn or the ice rink skating feel when taxing.

29 minutes ago, Bigmack said:

or the ice rink skating feel when taxing.

Again, depends on the aircraft and how the developer programmed it.

In my experience not every aircraft feels that way.

1 hour ago, tttocs said:

We sure must be looking at something differently, no language even necessary.  When the mains touch, the wheels immediately slide sideways as though the plane were landing on ice (BTDT 🙂), not dry pavement.  Sure the planes inertia would have SOME impact, but not like this.  Not sure how this could be interpreted as too much friction.

 

On this we can agree - in fact it's not realistic even with modest sized tricycle gear GA aircraft.  It makes everything feel almost like you're in a wood and fabric taildragger.

 

Scott

We might be talking about two different things as you stated in your post.

I don’t see what you see when you say the airplane slides across the ground like ice. I see that it grabs the ground too abruptly as if the calculations are either “wheels in air” or “wheels on ground.” There is no blending. I see the airplane sliding like ice during the roll out which is unequivocally wrong in my opinion.

That being said, I still think the immediate change in direction of travel at the exact point of contact with the ground is wrong. Then when the airplane is on the roll out, the slippy slidey feel of the plane is wrong as well. I’m doing my best to articulate my thoughts through word but I may not be doing a great job of that. Anyways, good talk!

Edited March 17Mar 17 by ahsmatt7

 

While the ASOBO SDK offers adjustments that can somehow help address this issue, they often show poorly or don't fully capture the airplane's behavior across many flight regimes, one of which is right here on display during windy conditions.

What we see here, at 10-15 KTS crosswind, is obviously wrong, such a bad reaction. 

 

@ahsmatt7    explains the real-life experience reaction perfectly. 

 

In real life, we use two techniques, landing with crab or de-crab just the right amount before touchdown. Some airplanes that come to mind right now that could have a nasty reaction during landing with crab are the 747 and 380. Actually, despite the inertia, on a dry runway, as soon as they touch down, it will jolt in the direction of the wind quite uncomfortably, jump like a billy goat, create a momentum where they also bank to a point where the engine pods can/will touch ground, engine damage, tires will blow, derbies all over, etc.

 

Again, the issue is that ASOBO does not understand the actual effect of friction and the correct transition between ground to air, and vice versa. Many people explained the issue to them, but it fell on deaf ears; they know better. 

 

I agree! 

I must be on a different sim.  But I rarely fly airliners.  I also got new pedals that helped a lot, winwing orion.