Windows in VC view

[Guest jlwoodward]

How do you add thickness to window openings in the VC view? When you copy the exterior and reverse the polygons, should you scale the part inward? Then you would have to build polygons along all the window edges. It seems that would be a tedious process, plus the inner shell may not scale inward the same at each point (such as around slanted windows). Or do you just draw the window edges on the texture?Thanks,John Woodward

[Guest]

I assume that you made your cockpit or fuselage walls of one dimensional thickness or "thin wall" construction as I call it? Like sheets of paper?When I started my first GMAX model, I thought this was the correct way to go about building the fuselage or cockpit. The sample aircraft supplied by MS for the Piper, etc. appear to be built this way.However, these were built for AI use. One of the things I admired about the Baron was the apparent thickness of the cockpit walls and window braces. It occurred to me that this must use a "thick wall" or wall with an actual three dimensional thickness.If you use thin wall construction, the only way to achieve thickness along the window edges is as you say, to duplicate the shell and then reduce its size by the wall thickness, then rejoin it to the outer shell by some process. Perhaps by creating new polygon faces between them. I do not know if this is possible. This kind of construction would begin with a cylinder, which is one dimensional when you look at it from inside.If you created the cockpit with a tube instead of a cylinder, then you would automatically have a wall thickness. I suspect this is how the Baron was created, however it could be the inside and outside shells just sit there without being connected or have been connected somehow.I've noticed some of the examples here appear to have wall thickness, which leads me to believe they are starting with a tube instead of a cylinder.As I've reached the point where I am starting on my VC, I am wondering if I made the right decision to use thin wall construction. I may have to just texture the inside of the cockpit and leave it looking thin. But I do not like this look at all. The default Bell has an obvious thin construction and it is not very convincing. It appears MS may have moved from thin wall to tube construction as they developed the default a/c.So I am left wondering what approach to make. Scrap my cockpit and redo it using a tube or try joining the two shells together.Steve

[Guest odog]

Ive tried both ways and I generally use a cylinder as my fuse...less verts to get in the way when shaping.then when the fuse is done I build the cockpit from the floor up, and I stick build the walls, kinda like framing in a bedroom...sometimes Ill grab some polys that make up headliner, for instance, and clone them and drag em into position.Once the interior is boxed in then Ill bool out the windows and doors.Some hand creation of polys is neccessary however, but I dont mind doing it because I get more a more uniform look from the VC view.maybe this pic will explain it better...

[Guest Milton]

Steve,Fuselage: Clone the fuse, select all and flip the polys, extrude 1-2" and you have thickness. Do not attach to outer skin (at least until finished).Windows: Detach from fuse, apply transparency, clone, flip, extrude 1-2", attach to outer window.Avoid the tube. :-)Milton

[Guest odog]

hi Milton :-waveI really like your 7, its very nice :-)I cant get this method to work right for me...at the extrude step, all the polys seem to just slide down the y axis, instead of extruding inward...?...I had more luck with scaling than extrude...but it does work nicely this way, thanks,

[Guest Milton]

Thank you :-)Yes, you must be selective; doing it as a whole seems to do that. I usually just extrude the polys I need where I need them. Seems to work better that way.Milton

[Guest jlwoodward]

Thanks everyone for all the tips. I am not sure how much they apply to FSDS2, so here is what I think I will try:1. Copy and paste fuselage. It was made from a tube and my understanding is a tube is just a surface with no thickness.2. Flip the polygons. Delete any that would not be part of the cockpit.3. Scale the inner shell inward 1 or 2 inches per side.4. Join inner and outer shells so that points in each can be selected (save the outer shell to bring it back later).5. Fill in the gaps around windows with polygons.6. Delete polygons of the outer shell and bring back the original fuselage.Maybe once this is started some tricks will become apparent. Will post a picture of any progress.Thanks,John Woodward

[Guest]

Thanks Odog, for the tip. Framing out I can appreciate that. :) Do you attach the cockpit floor and walls to the fuselage cylinder?I keep forgetting about extrude. I had some frustration with it in the begining so I tend to not think of it.When I first started, I assumed that I could just create any polys I wanted to fill in or connect parts. Strangly enough I could never connect anything at all and gave up. Until a tip here suggested creating the polys in a counterclockwise direction. That has generally worked. (As well I have noticed that sometimes you need to rotate the object a bit to get a edge or poly create tool to work because of selection problems?).The difficulty I encountered fitting and connecting parts together and just generally manipulating vertices is what led me to think of using a tube. The thickness would be prefabricated. But I knew it had to be a bear to work through all those outside vertices.Well, then I will get to it once my animation problems are worked out! Lots of good suggestions.Steve

[Guest jlwoodward]

Here it is so far.As far as I can tell with FSDS2, extrude is not available with a part, only a template, and thickness cannot be assigned to a tube. Maybe there are some tricks that someone knows.I used the method from my last post, but I found that scaling the cockpit shell inward is difficult and not uniform all over. Filling in the gaps was not too bad. Sometimes you have to flip the polygons, and you have to turn off smoothing for the edge polygons.Certainly is a lot of work. I wonder if all the planes with edges are Gmax planes?John Woodward

[Guest jlwoodward]

Another thing I meant to add:When making the door, it looked like it would be invisible when close. I selected all the points around the outer edge and then scaled horizontally and vertically to get about a 1/4" gap all around.What do you think of that approach? I am afraid it will show daylight from inside the plane.John Woodward

[Brian_Gladden 0]

John. Thats the way that Mikko showed me to make an FSDS fueslage with thickness. it is tedious and I am skipping it for my Cessna 140 but I will try it for my Socata TBM 700.Brian

[Guest]

Brian hello after your cessna 140 be what you pourais to do Grumman S-2 Tracker

[Guest jlwoodward]

Brian,Thanks for confirming that. Yes it is tedious, but darn I'm having fun! Learning more with each problem, too.Will post a picture as soon as I get all the pieces put together and get the doors animated.I'm thinking of doing a C120 next. Maybe it's a Luscombe though- a two seater tail dragger. It will depend on what 3-views are available.John

[Brian_Gladden 0]

do the Luscombe... to make a C120 all I need to do is remove the flaps and rear side windows from my 140 :-lolBrian