Conveyer Belt Takeoff- Mythbusters jumps in!!!

[michal 44]

>I agree with you on manual, even for us simmers it takes a>lot of practice. However, if the person is somewhat computer>literate, I think a controller or pilot could talk him/her>into setting up for an autoland!I doubt very much being "computer-literate" would help or have any bearing on the outcome. Setting for autoland is not just a matter of punching a few buttons, you have to bring aircraft to certain 'state' so autoland could take over. It all requires understanding what aircraft is currently doing and perform some timely functions. And lets not forget even if autloand was correctly enabled pilot still have to control flaps and speed and do it in a synchronized timely fashion. If a person were a pilot then there would be a chance otherwise the chance in my opinion is ZERO.Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[tf51d 284]

>I doubt very much being "computer-literate" would help or have>any bearing on the outcome. Setting for autoland is not just a>matter of punching a few buttons, you have to bring aircraft>to certain 'state' so autoland could take over. It all>requires understanding what aircraft is currently doing and>perform some timely functions. And lets not forget even if>autloand was correctly enabled pilot still have to control>flaps and speed and do it in a synchronized timely fashion. If>a person were a pilot then there would be a chance otherwise>the chance in my opinion is ZERO.Remember, on a 744 once setup, there are visual cues on the PFD when to set flaps, The pilot in communication with him could tell him what to look for and when to set flaps etc. Remember the Myth is to land a 744, not fly it from takeoff to landing. So assuming at the time this non pilot takes the controls, the plane is already at stable flight, and on AP. I think he could via help from a ground pilot set the plane up for an Autoland. After all we do it with the PMDG744, and LDS767 now, and most of us never piloted a jumbo before! This all assumes the person is computer literate enough to be able to be talked through making the necessary entries into the FMC and autopilot, along with other variables like weather. The odds would go down if weather was bad, especially if there was a crosswind. I do agree though, without any external help, and no training or sim experience there would be no hope.

[kerosene31 349]

Why not save time and put a novice in a 747 on a treadmill and see if they can get it off the ground? :)

[michal 44]

>LDS767 now, and most of us never piloted a jumbo before! This>all assumes the person is computer literate enough to be ableAgain I disagree. Being computer literate won't help you with finding where flaps are, how to set up things on the MCP panel, etc. Also I strongly believe there would simply be no time for some rookie to be told what to look for, where to find things. There are simply too many things to do in too many places and for someone with no prior coaching session, just to sit down and just listen to someone over the radio explain things - such a simple thing like explaining to the guy where things are would take up too much time. Perhaps if they had an hour or so before the actual landing but I still thing it would be next to impossible to perform it in a satisfactory manner.Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[jagabom 21]

I think they could land it.Bob the Knob.

[kerosene31 349]

The whole landing a 747 thing needs more clarification. Does landing mean bringing it down from normal cruise, or already on approach, etc? Are they getting detailed instructions from someone in flight (from the tower, etc)? I mean, assuming they are in cruise and on autopilot, and the ground has a ton of time to talk them through stuff... maybe. It really depends on how much time they had. I don't get what they expect to prove anyway. I would say it would be unlikely, but how can you possibly declare that it is 100% impossible? It should be fun to watch them crash the simulator anyway! :)

[Guest Shalomar]

I hope Carrie tries the landing...Best Regards; Donald T. :-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

[StoneC0ld 5]

In the U.S. only....It appears that the conveyor belt takeoff episode won't air in Canada until at least sometime in 2008, as there's no mention of this episode on discovery.ca.... The episode that does air on the 12th in Canada is an episode from 2006 testing if a snapping cable can slice someone in half...

[bob.bernstein 0]

Now that's something worth knowing.Television at its finest.B

[aentwis 61]

>Okay, let's try a different angle on this, if we put the>plane on the treadmill, on idle, so it won't go forward, then>move the treadmill backwards, the plane (no matter what anyone>says) WILL go backwards along the treadmill. Okay, now we>bring the engines up to taxi at the speed of the treadmill,>the plane will not move forwards suddenly, it will stop, and>sit stationary until we either add more power, or speed up the>treadmill, in which case the plane has to go backwards again>until more power is added. Keep doing this until the plane is>taxiing at 80 Knots, the treadmill is also doing 80 Knots, and>the plane will still be on the treadmill stationary, Unless>you add more power to make it move again.>Your reasoning is incorrect...The fundamental point the "it will not take off" group seems to fail to grasp is that the power plant of all aircraft is independent of the ground interface (the undercarriage). Get your treadmill spinning at 10 knots ground speed, and the plane would move backwards at 10 knots, due to friction. Add power to set an airspeed of 10 knots and the plane will start accelerate forward to an airspeed of 10 knots. The wheels by this point would be rotating at a forward ground speed of 20 knots... increase the speed of the conveyor belt to 20 knots without changing the thrust setting of the power plant, your plane will roll forward on the conveyor at 10 knots airspeed, and the wheels will be spinning at 30 knots. I make no major assumptions here other than zero wind, because the thrust setting is set to keep the airspeed indicator on 10 knots. The comparatively minimal force of friction is easily overcome with time.You increase power to take off thrust, the aircraft will accelerate regardless of what speed the conveyor belt under the wheels accelerates to in the opposite direction. If takeoff speed is 80 knots, then the ground speed for takeoff in zero wind is 80 knots. If the conveyor belt is rotating at 80 knots ground speed in the opposite direction, the wheels will be spinning at 160 knots at take off...The whole problem is easily understood with a grasp of basic physics, in particular Newton's Laws of Motion.Would be interested if someone posts the Mythbusters' results... won't get to see it in Germany...Andrew

[tunnelcat 1]

Hey all pilots. I think this episode may be the one on tonight (12/12/07) here in the U.S. It's called the "Airplane Special" in my listings. Be sure to check it out!Kim

[michal 44]

I think it is at 9 PM.Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Do you guys have any idea of how much bandwidth you have consumed in this discussion? One that has gone on for the last 10 years here that I am aware of? Of the 6 or 7 terrabytes a month that we serve up, I am pretty sure this thread is responsible for 3 or 4! :)Okay, here's the deal... If Mythbusters runs tonight, no matter the outcome, this thread comes to an end. At 9:00 PM EST tomorrow night (December 13th), we'll lock this thread. So, watch the episode, get your comments in, and our servers will be happy, our routers will be happy, and my head will stop hurting from pondering the imponderable here. :-lol

[Wnuk 12]

They didn't show it!!!!!!!!!

[tf51d 284]

Well it turned out to be a bust after all that, some how the conveyor belt myth test, turned into Movie sky diving tests! Guess, they couldn't figure out how to test it. As for whether a novice can land a plane, they called it plausable being it never happened before, but since they both did it, with a pilot talking them down, it looks it's more confirmed. The myth was whether it could be done, not whether it would ever happen. Also the experienced pilot noted, it would be easier done with autoland!